Reasoning wrote:
So as former members of NOP, both Gouchers, Steve Magness, and the other "witnesses" are lying based on your stated premise that NOPers are incapable of telling the truth. Well, that clears that up. Moving on.
If they ain't NOPers now, then they should be able to tell the truth. Any current NOPer is, of course, a liar.
So upon leaving NOP one magically regains the ability to tell the truth. So should we do this for all the sociopaths in our society, and politicians for that matter. Have them join NOP then quit and all of a sudden all they will do is tell the truth? And do you start lying on the day you join NOP or is there an incubation period? Likewise, do the NOP effects wear off gradually so you tell a higher percentage of the truth each day after you leave the program? This is something we never studied in psychology...I am fascinated.
Are they NOPers? wrote:
Reasoning wrote:So as former members of NOP, both Gouchers, Steve Magness, and the other "witnesses" are lying based on your stated premise that NOPers are incapable of telling the truth. Well, that clears that up. Moving on.
If they ain't NOPers now, then they should be able to tell the truth. Any current NOPer is, of course, a liar.
You have ZERO ability to reason anything out. You prefer all NOP athletes to keep their mouth's shut even forevermore. Al Sal and his superboy Rupp must be protected at all costs. LOL............
Steve Magness, as sjm1368, said around that time that his own thyroid medication made a huge difference in his own performance. Training makes you tired and probably depresses certain hormones until you rest. Ergo, magic and fully TUE-capable.
I'll bet you also make your own water, like you make your own hormones.
Poor reasoning .... wrote:
You have ZERO ability to reason anything out. You prefer all NOP athletes to keep their mouth's shut even forevermore. Al Sal and his superboy Rupp must be protected at all costs. LOL............
Let me translate what you just wrote. "Four legs good, two legs bad."
Are you familiar with the idea that members of an organization cannot reveal what goes on there while remaining in the organization? So, they lie or are silent while in the organization and they tell the truth or are silent when they leave.
Reasoning wrote:
So upon leaving NOP one magically regains the ability to tell the truth. So should we do this for all the sociopaths in our society, and politicians for that matter. Have them join NOP then quit and all of a sudden all they will do is tell the truth? And do you start lying on the day you join NOP or is there an incubation period? Likewise, do the NOP effects wear off gradually so you tell a higher percentage of the truth each day after you leave the program? This is something we never studied in psychology...I am fascinated.
Are they NOPers? wrote:If they ain't NOPers now, then they should be able to tell the truth. Any current NOPer is, of course, a liar.
Yes, the second they join NOPe, they are incapable of telling the truth. Once they leave NOPe, they can be truthful (but may not always be). In NOPe, they are absolutely dopers and liars. Out of NOP, they may or may not be dopers or liars. Some NOPers, like sleazy and centro, were dopers and liars before becoming NOPers. Let's say most NOPers were dopers before becoming NOPers: Hasay for sure, centro for sure, sleazy for sure, mo for sure. Some NOPers maybe weren't dopers before becoming NOPers: rowbury maybe, levins maybe, cain maybe. As far as politicians go, they would be liars before, during and after NOPe. Except for possibly someone like Jimmy Carter, who would only lie while at NOPe.
"Consider getting rid of the TUEs submitted by docs connected with athletes, teams, coaches, etc., and establish a couple dozen certified WADA TUE providers. - Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."
Thank you TrackCoach for the most reasonable suggestion I've seen on this subject in a long time.
tired of drugs apologists wrote:
What idiots like you don't understand is that it's the training, including living in an altitude tent that brings on the need for thyroid meds to "allow you to live normally". That's why they should be banned. If you don't need thyroid meds when you're not training then you shouldn't be allowed to take them just to be able to train.
But what idiots like you don't understand is that there are athletes who ARE hypothyroid because they actually have anti-thyroid antibodies, not because of training. If a parent or relative has Hashimotos, it is very likely that one of the kids will have it.
Drug Tzaralazar wrote:
How is Rupp going to do the mileage of a 10k runner, the speed work of a miler, break American records and follow it with a full workout, do the gym work of a sprinter, add extra milage on underwater treadmill, while adding the added stress of sleeping at a simulated 10000 feet altitude? Any doctor who tested his hormones and prescribed hormone therapy without considering this should be struck off the register. Any coach who encouraged an athlete to use hormone therapy to continue training when rest was clearly needed should be sued for damages to that athlete's health.
Yea ,you make sense, lets sue and jail all the bars and liquor store owners for selling booze that causes liver issues. Or maybe every store owner that sells cigarettes for causing lung cancer.
You have an imbalance with hormones caused by a variety of issues some of those being extreme training and your unable to treat it? Ok, follow that theory for shoes with orthotics, training causes a problem you medically fix it and your theory says not, you deplete your iron have a iron deficiency problem take iron to correct it you say no, athlete has athletically induced asthma needs an inhaler to function you say no.
LetsRun.com wrote:
They believe the drugs can be abused to be performance enhancing.
The Wall St Journal has broken the story here:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/thyroid-medication-could-be-added-to-banned-substance-list-1436221098
I would say this is not a big deal.
The medication will be suggested and reviewed to determine if it should make the banned list put out on Jan. of 2016. Yes its been put up prior and didn't have sufficient evidence as a performance enhancer to make the list .
No study to date and or research has found thyroid meds to be performance enhancing.Speculation yes, hard physical evidence no.
Over taking the thyroid meds is factual and can actually give you the opposite reaction of tiredness and weight gain that an elite might not want to achieve.
Taking the meds bring you back to normal levels not enhance or boost performance.
What is needed is a study amongst endurance athletes to determine if thyroid damage or depletion takes place thus requiring taking meds to get back to normal.
Since this is a priority and significant focus of LetsRun.com, I suggest they fund a study to get to the truth if any.
But it would be if you applied the same rules to it. You can't just say "oh a reasonable person knows that doesn't need to be regulated and that does."
The dangerous di-hydrogen monoxide kills people when overconsumed or breathed in, but also allows me to unfairly recover from training compared to someone who doesn't use it.
Why not treat thyroid hormone in the same way as testosterone. You can get a testosterone TUE if you have very low levels and there is a well-defined and documented medical reason for it. But you *can't* get one if your levels are low without a well-defined cause (so-called "functional" hypogonadism), or if you have some medical condition that simply leads to low-normal levels. Applied to thyroid, this would allow TUEs for Hashimoto's but disallow TUEs for "functional" hypothyroidism.
Also note with TUEs there is a requirement that you first seek out non-prohibited treatments. If your thyroid levels are screwed up due to excessive training and sleeping in an altitude tent, then the obvious non-prohibited treatment is to NOT overtrain and NOT sleep in the tent.
LetsRun.com wrote:
Here is a picture of the article that prominently features a photo of Alberto and Rupp in it.
https://twitter.com/letsrundotcom/status/618813269097234432
They should have the Magness and Gouchers as the featured photos. If thyroid meds are doping then Magness/Gouchers are the OG (Old Gangsters).
noname wrote:
bigtool05 wrote:Since when is insulin a performance enhancer?
It's not to people who have enough. But for people who don't make enough, it allows them to lead a normal life. This is the same for thyroid meds. If you have enough it's not a performance enhancer but if you are clinically low, it allows you to live normally.
Not true. Insulin is highly, highly anabolic. Those who have "enough insulin" benefit from additional insulin just as those who have "enough testosterone" or "enough HGH" benefit from additional testosterone or HGH.
A problem with insulin is that unless one knows what one is doing it can make one dead, another problem is that unless one knows what one is doing it can make one fat.
Insulin stacks very well with HGH Re: problem #2.
My question disappeared.
Have you guys interviewed Paula Radcliffe on these doping issues?
Running Times calls her an Anti Doping Advocate so she must have an opinion.
They certainly are. And taking the time to examine the available research on doping in sport would make that clear to them. For whatever reason, they neglect this work.
ya..... wrote:
Letsrun is oblivious to the harmful agenda they are pushing here.
Peter Andersson wrote:My thoughts exactly! And what about hearing aids? Contact lenses? GMO food? Female perfumes that boost testosterone production in men? Blood transfusions for athletes in car accidents? Will anyone who's not a Fourth Rich natural grown vegetarian gay ubermensh and a Jehova's Witness on top of that actually be allowed to do T&A by 2020?
Thyroid hormones enhance hypoxia-induced erythropoietin production in vitro.
"Effects of thyroid hormones on the production of erythropoietin (Epo) were investigated in isolated perfused rat kidneys and in the human hepatoma cell line, HepG2. Epo protein was measured by radioimmunoassay. L-triiodothyronine and L-thyroxine stimulated hypoxia-induced Epo formation both in the kidney and in HepG2 cells in a dose-dependent fashion. Quantitation of Epo mRNA by competitive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) showed that hypoxic HepG2 cells had three-fold higher Epo messenger RNA levels when treated with thyroid hormones for 3 hours. Measurements of oxygen consumption revealed that this effect was not due to an increase in the degree of hypoxia. Thus, apart from the known direct effect on erythroid precursors, thyroid hormones appear to stimulate erythropoiesis by a noncalorigenic increase in Epo production."