Benjamin Dover wrote:
Is anyone criticizing Magness for failing to respond to the accusations of him getting too close to a female runner? Like, perhaps the one who left NOP at about the same time he did and moved to Houston with him?
They both already addressed that in the Pro Publica response yesterday.
A coach is basically a workplace "boss". Workplace "bosses" do not have affairs with their employees. A teacher is in a supervisory position over students. A teacher does not have affairs with his student. Magness was over the line, was properly let go, and is lying about it to this day.
I couldn't help but snicker as I read Magness' emotional "rebuttal?". Are we to feel sorry for him? Certainly he turned the photo over to USDAO...if not, why not? If he did, then USDAO must have been satisfied with Alberto's explanation at the time. Now that the doctor is deceased, Magness brings out the photo again. Weird, implausible and dishonest, at best.
Slivery Slope wrote:
Certainly he turned the photo over to USDAO...if not, why not? If he did, then USDAO must have been satisfied with Alberto's explanation at the time. .
Your employer expects you to know the most basic facts of the case, such as the name of USADA.
Slivery Slope wrote:
A coach is basically a workplace "boss". Workplace "bosses" do not have affairs with their employees. A teacher is in a supervisory position over students. A teacher does not have affairs with his student. Magness was over the line, was properly let go, and is lying about it to this day.
Underage of consent? - No, then WGAF.
Two to nil for Magness me thinks.
don't get your panties in a bunch.
all you people who want to make allegations against galen rupp, the best non-african runner we have, are like spoiled children.
i knew they were innocent until proven guilty. salazar gave a long, reasoned response after taking hours of his time outside work to research all the emails and documents.
there are no "magic" steroids for rupp. those are only for losers who are desperate and want to make a last-ditch attempt at winning in a regional track meet. maybe these type of posters are the ones making the allegations.
Benjamin Dover wrote:
So he found someone who passes himself off as an ivestigative journalist and tried again.
Epstein had lengthy investigations of both Arod and Lance. One of the best in the business. Stay on the message not the messenger.
Peter Andersson wrote:
About the word "testosterone" scribbled on an old medical document.
It was typed on a document by a Nike Phd in a lab with a lot of time on his hands. Not some doc in an ER scribbling something on a sheet of paper.
Perhaps Steve needs to learn that an employer can be happy with your performance, then have concerns or doubts, speak with you about it, think you have gotten the message, and improved, and then see you slide back into the disappointing behavior, creeping on a female athlete.
I doubt many believe that Areson just moved to Houston because she liked his coaching and she had no designs on notching him.
The issue would not have been that they had sex while in NOP or not. It's pretty likely despite their protests that they did what comes natural -- since she ended up moving there, and following him, and then making the beast with two backs with him.
The issue in that kind of working relationship would be that Magness should not have been giving OR accepting any kind of flirtations, romantic overtones, sexual innuendo jokes, what ever.
In that kind of professional coaching to athlete relationship, for the times of the day that the male coach is working with a female athlete, he must professionally consider himself neutered of those behaviors -- his job depends on it -- as did Magness's.
He has some lack of life experience and some blind spots to not understand that he is not clean in this; he made behavioral mistakes.
Why would Alberto ask him what he saw while at Nike? Perhaps because, if the guy was delusional (and frankly receiving or giving romantic intentions in that kind of environment, Alberto wanted to know what other delusions the guy might have projected into his shifting narrative of his time at NOP.
When Magness had his first concerns the proper procedure in work work land is to not ask your superior in passing, it is to schedule a meeting with your direct report, express your concerns and cc your concerns or notes from such a meeting to HR. What you don't do is creep on your female charge. Receiving or giving.
typo wrote:
Peter Andersson wrote:About the word "testosterone" scribbled on an old medical document.
It was typed on a document by a Nike Phd in a lab with a lot of time on his hands. Not some doc in an ER scribbling something on a sheet of paper.
It also said 'testosterone medication' and not simply 'testosterone'. Consistent with claims that it was a test boosting supplement and not actual testosterone.
LetsRun.com wrote:
Hopefully, you haven't gone to bed yet.
We tried to get this up before USAs started but ran out of time.
A reward to those of you still up:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/06/steve-magness-issues-passionate-rebuttal-to-alberto-salazars-open-letter-salazars-statements-actually-confirm-what-i-witnessed-and-what-i-told-to-the-bbcpropublica-reporters-in-their-documen/
I honestly don't know what to make of it -- but the charges of the Brojos being biased is absolutely true. Just look at the headline of this article -- a "passionate" response.
Wanting a clean sport is admirable but your reporting methods are often not.
monkeys on minimal wage wrote:
Slivery Slope wrote:Certainly he turned the photo over to USDAO...if not, why not? If he did, then USDAO must have been satisfied with Alberto's explanation at the time. .
Your employer expects you to know the most basic facts of the case, such as the name of USADA.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
It's crazy to see all these shill posts. I get a warm, fuzzy feeling every time they give themselves away.
SelectiveReading wrote:
You need to pay closer attention, Montesquieu.
Magness said clearly in the original Epstien article that there were 2 pills in the book. Epstien also has an email from another case where Alberto said he sent Celebrex inside of a magazine. And now Alberto has publlshed emails where he admits to sending hollowed out books with medicine himself.
All of these items are - at minimum - prescription drugs. In most countries it is illegal to mail prescriptions across an international border without the proper customs declarations. Alberto's own emails EXPLICITLY say that he used hollowed out books to make sure the medicines he sent "clear" customs - i.e. he just admitted to a criminal offense.
The severety of that offense may be determined by what those substances were, and that could range from something mild like Celebrex or the nasal spray to something more severe. But the fact is he did send them, he admits to sending them, and it was illegal to do so since he misrepresented them on the customs form.
So if Shalane Flanagn snuck a bottle of shampoo onto an airplane, does that mean she doped? I don't think anyone is suggesting that Salazar is some great person who has never committed a wrong. At a minimum, if he is being honest, the stuff regarding testing his son is insane and he did potentially break a customs law. But he isn't being accused of breaking a law to provide his athlete with their prescription medication. He's being accused of running a doping program.
Also, I don't really get much from this Magness response because again he does not offer much in terms of evidence and doesn't explain his own inconsistencies. He used a similar argument to the Propublica response- that Salazar confirmed their claims. Well yes, he even provided evidence to show that events did occur, but Magness can't act like the context of his story doesn't completely change as a result. For example, Magness and Salazar both show that Magness took Rupp's urine sample to the Mayo clinic for testing, but Magness claims it was some terrifying and obscure request that he never heard about again while Salazar showed, with evidence, with contact with USADA, that Magness was completely aware of the need for the test and the circumstances and that the proper drug agency was informed about the issue that Salazar was hoping to address. Even if Salazar is a complete jerk, Magness lied. And that really bring into question his testimony.
We don't want cry babies, we want evidence. Like salazar provided. Get real magness no one buys this shit.
In the end, the main accusation is that Galen is cheating. The vials were explained. The pills in the book were explained (stupid but not cheating). The mayo test was explained. I don't care much about inhalers. There are the unusual androgel test stories and explanations. So, how can you ever know? At this point , I assume UsADA has looked into all this since 2013 and I'll just watch with that knowledge and wait for anything substantive to come out from USADA.
At least in the U.S. we have an agency looking into this. It's good that people came forward with concerns but then we should trust the process. In other countries they do not have agencies like this. The testosterone, etc. is cheap and accessible enough for others to cheat. So the U.S. Is doing more than others and that is something. It may not be perfect but it probably is not as corrupt as what cycling had.
i don't think there is much more to be learned in the back and forth. The Gouchers and Magness can raise concerns to USADA and can choose to go on camera. Salazar responded and was within his rights . I think it's fair to address circumstances of departure when people say they left due to ethical concerns. But I am not going to spend too much energy on that. I don't know that there is much to learn in the cytomel debate,
Now maybe people can stop slamming each other and calling each other idiots or worse.
Mac Feet wrote:
SelectiveReading wrote:You need to pay closer attention, Montesquieu.
Magness said clearly in the original Epstien article that there were 2 pills in the book. Epstien also has an email from another case where Alberto said he sent Celebrex inside of a magazine. And now Alberto has publlshed emails where he admits to sending hollowed out books with medicine himself.
All of these items are - at minimum - prescription drugs. In most countries it is illegal to mail prescriptions across an international border without the proper customs declarations. Alberto's own emails EXPLICITLY say that he used hollowed out books to make sure the medicines he sent "clear" customs - i.e. he just admitted to a criminal offense.
The severety of that offense may be determined by what those substances were, and that could range from something mild like Celebrex or the nasal spray to something more severe. But the fact is he did send them, he admits to sending them, and it was illegal to do so since he misrepresented them on the customs form.
So if Shalane Flanagn snuck a bottle of shampoo onto an airplane, does that mean she doped? I don't think anyone is suggesting that Salazar is some great person who has never committed a wrong. At a minimum, if he is being honest, the stuff regarding testing his son is insane and he did potentially break a customs law. But he isn't being accused of breaking a law to provide his athlete with their prescription medication. He's being accused of running a doping program.
Also, I don't really get much from this Magness response because again he does not offer much in terms of evidence and doesn't explain his own inconsistencies. He used a similar argument to the Propublica response- that Salazar confirmed their claims. Well yes, he even provided evidence to show that events did occur, but Magness can't act like the context of his story doesn't completely change as a result. For example, Magness and Salazar both show that Magness took Rupp's urine sample to the Mayo clinic for testing, but Magness claims it was some terrifying and obscure request that he never heard about again while Salazar showed, with evidence, with contact with USADA, that Magness was completely aware of the need for the test and the circumstances and that the proper drug agency was informed about the issue that Salazar was hoping to address. Even if Salazar is a complete jerk, Magness lied. And that really bring into question his testimony.
I agree. Magness mad ethat story sound so suspicious and now it is hard to argue he did not know what was going on. That hurt his credibility and he did not respond to it (passionate or not). It's ok to have concerns but you must be careful when you enter these debates, especially who you initiate them.
I think you've missed the point. The issue is not AlSal's "glowing praise," be it private or public, but the fact that he would turn his top athletes over to a guy that he now says he had no confidence in.
I coached at a small D3 school where I had several distance and mid-distance individual national qualifiers and multiple conference championships but never qualified a XC team. However, I would have never left my team for 10 days leading up to a conference or regional championship. And that's "just" an insignificant D3 job. I can't even conceive of doing that with a group of Olympic athletes who are responsible for my livelihood! Why would you even think of turning that level of athlete over to someone you don't trust at all.
staying on point wrote:
I think you've missed the point. The issue is not AlSal's "glowing praise," be it private or public, but the fact that he would turn his top athletes over to a guy that he now says he had no confidence in.
I coached at a small D3 school where I had several distance and mid-distance individual national qualifiers and multiple conference championships but never qualified a XC team. However, I would have never left my team for 10 days leading up to a conference or regional championship. And that's "just" an insignificant D3 job. I can't even conceive of doing that with a group of Olympic athletes who are responsible for my livelihood! Why would you even think of turning that level of athlete over to someone you don't trust at all.
I think that shows more trust in the athletes than the coach. Salazar is still writing the workouts and these are professional athletes. It's not like Galen Rupp is gonna be like, "nah I think I'll go to the bar instead of the track today"
Thank You! wrote:
hobbyjoggist wrote:Didn't every LRC'er already know that Al Sal (and everyone else with the money/sense) was doing everything they could to get every possible advantage, so long as it wasn't going to get them popped for a rules violation? Its not glamorous, but its what the job calls for. It is Rupp's job to run as fast as he can. Its Al Sal's job to make that happen. If NOP is doing anything short of 100% of what is allowed given their resources, than they are doing their job badly.
Thank You for nailing down the issue to this one single obvious paragraph.
Yes like figuring just the right dose (squirt level) of Androgel to remain undetected. The sabotage argument is disingenuous.
rojo wrote:
They never said they did have proof.
I'm confused here, rojo. Is anyone actually accusing Salazar or not? The original story was all about the allegations leveled against Salazar. Salazar responded and all of a sudden Epstein was saying "nobody ever made those allegations."