OFFICIAL MATTHEW MATON SUB-4 THREAD!! HSer runs 3:59.38!!

Mrr82 wrote:

malmo wrote:

I was a sophomore in college at his age.

Malmo you're not dumb, so don't be intentionally ignorant/obtuse. You're being a jerk again like you were on the Oregon thread. You were born in the summer so obviously you'd be one of the youngest in the grade and turned 20 just after your soph year ended. That has nothing to do with Maton.

Maton is a year too old, you're making it sound like he's two years too old. He's not.

Well, first of all you are admitting that he is at least 1 year too old. So Malmo basically wins.

And yes, when I was 19 and 41 days I was also well into my sophomore year in college (as was Chris Derrick and I think German Fernandez). So yes, great achievement by Maton. I am really impressed and think he has probably worked really hard for this. But still, with teenage boys, every year (even every day) makes a big difference. And really, it is much different of an achievement at 19 years and 41 days than it is at 17 years and 100 days.

Age makes a biiig difference.

And for once I don't think Malmo is being a douche but that he is really just pointing out a truth

I believe that he would also not be allowed to run in the state meet in my state (IL) at that age. But have to confirm (20 might be limit so maybe ignore this)

Guys he's a year older than normal. Stop saying 19 is a normal age for a college Sophomore by this time of the year. Most college sophomores are 20 by now.

Yes I'm not arguing he isn't a year old. Just saying let's not be stupid and make it seem like he's 2 years too old.

As for GF, he's an extreme case. Cali has one of the latest ;or latest?) cutoff dates in the country. What GF did at his age was amazing. He would have been a SR in HS in almost any other state his freshman year in college. GF was not your typical sr in the U.S.

Wow,

Was reading the race summary and didn't realize Ryun was 17 yrs and some odd days the first time he broke it. Yikes! For some reason in my head it was 18yrs when he did it.

He's not a year old for his grade. He was born in March. Had he been born in July, not many people would be saying anything. He's a few months old for his grade, not a whole year. A few months doesn't make any difference. His number of years training at this point is not going to be different than someone who is graduating at 18. Trying to downgrade someone immediately after they accomplish something like this totally blows my mind.

vdvxvz wrote:

He's not a year old for his grade. He was born in March. Had he been born in July, not many people would be saying anything. He's a few months old for his grade, not a whole year. A few months doesn't make any difference. His number of years training at this point is not going to be different than someone who is graduating at 18. Trying to downgrade someone immediately after they accomplish something like this totally blows my mind.

What this guy said....

here is the deal wrote:

All the 19yr old crap doesn't really bother me. High school has age limits, he meets them. All kids develop at different rates. some 18 yr old matured early, some late. Not to mention with sept/oct the typical age cut off it is normal for seniors to be 18yrs 6-7 months to 17 yrs 8 monthos or so.

That all said, if Maton and Fisher were to run the same times I would of course side with Fisher as the more impressive performance.

and 19yrs in high school isn't the same as freshman in college. Training, competition etc. ramps up a lot in college.

The cool thing is we actually have these great races to debate this issue on. Dream mile is going to really be something this year!

Training and competition ramps up more in college?

He's doing 80-90 miles a week, AND he just ran this race against collegiate and professional athletes

may not be up to date

World Age records

An absolute age record means . . . no one younger has achieved a better result for ages below the world record

15y 8m 5735 3:58.36 John Thuo KEN 2001-08-11 1985-11-27

16y 9m 6135 3:56.97 John Thuo KEN 2002-09-15 1985-11-27 PB (Alltime-507)

17y 4m 6326 3:54.56 Issac Songok KEN 2001-08-20 1984-04-25 PB (Alltime-269)

17y 6m 6412 3:50.90 Hamza Driouch QAT 2012-06-07 1994-11-16 PB (Alltime-94), P8WR

18y 5m 6744 3:50.83 Nicholas Kiptanui Kemboi KEN 2008-06-06 1989-12-18 PB (Alltime-92)

18y 8m 6811 3:49.77 Caleb Ndiku KEN 2011-06-04 1992-10-09 PB (Alltime-49)

19y 4m 7059 3:49.29 William Biwott Tanui KEN 2009-07-03 1990-03-05 PB (Alltime-35), JWR

19y 11m 7282 3:48.50 Asbel Kiprop KEN 2009-06-07 1989-06-30 PB (Alltime-24)

20y 8m 7548 3:48.49 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 2005-07-29 1984-11-27

7551 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny KEN 1999-07-07 1978-11-02 PB (Alltime-2), NR, P2WR

German was around 40 days older when he did his 3:55.02i. Dammit GF, what happened?

Regardless, great accomplishment.

The only reason why schools allow 19 year olds to enroll is to accommodate individual circumstances, generally to allow developmentally delayed students to be educated with their friends. The 19 yar old limit was never intended to be an inconvenient barrier to be manipulated by parents so that their own little Johnny Football has a chance to beat Al Bundy's touchdown record at Polk High.

Keep it here wrote:

vdvxvz wrote:

He's not a year old for his grade. He was born in March. Had he been born in July, not many people would be saying anything. He's a few months old for his grade, not a whole year. A few months doesn't make any difference. His number of years training at this point is not going to be different than someone who is graduating at 18. Trying to downgrade someone immediately after they accomplish something like this totally blows my mind.

What this guy said....

I graduated and i was 18 yrs and about 40 days old, and the oldest kids in my graduating class were 18yrs and 150-200 days old. maton is currently older than i am, and i'm a college freshman. I am by no means below the average age for a college freshman.

He is old, but it's still quite the feat.

Here is the age rule from the OSAA:

"8.3. Age.

Rule: A student who becomes 19 before August 15 shall become ineligible for interscholastic competition. A student who becomes 19 on or after August 15 shall remain eligible for that entire school year.

Rationale: To ensure equality of competition and opportunity, a standard must be established at some point to determine the cutoff date for age eligibility. Use of a specific cutoff date gives notice to all parties involved in interscholastic activities and maintains equality of participant eligibility among schools."

http://www.osaa.org/governance/handbooks/osaa#_Toc393093101

vdvxvz wrote:

He's not a year old for his grade. He was born in March. Had he been born in July, not many people would be saying anything. He's a few months old for his grade, not a whole year. A few months doesn't make any difference. His number of years training at this point is not going to be different than someone who is graduating at 18. Trying to downgrade someone immediately after they accomplish something like this totally blows my mind.

You might be right about the sniping, but you are wrong about his age.

Maton was born in March, 1996. In Texas, where he grew up, kids start kindergarten if they are 5 years old by September 1. So he "should" have started kindergarten in 2001, and 1st grade in 2002. That means he "should" have graduated from high school in the spring of 2014, when he would have been 18.

For whatever reason, that didn't happen, so he is, in fact, "a year old for his grade."

As has been pointed out, he meets the high school eligibility requirements, so he is in fact one of six high school boys to run a sub-4:00 mile.

He also meets the requirements of the the club of 19 year olds who've run under 4 minutes. As has been pointed out, that is a much less exclusive club.

I would bet you have no clue of what his training is like. You got some training logs you can share? It bewilders me how folks champion that mythical 40mpw high school runner crap. This is the 3rd race he has run against college folks, partly because he can no longer run against high school kids. John Dressel also ran against college folks in the 3k today Grant fisher ran against college folks at payton Jordan.Yes he is older than the average high school kid, I won't argue that. if you think that some how equates to a freshman year in college you clearly never ran for anywhere good (if you even ran in college).News flash if he were a freshman in college over half the freshman would be older than him.

OLD-Runner wrote:

He is 19 years 41 days old! Still very good, but not a true HS age!

Ryan Hall was 18 years 9 months old when he ran 3:42.7. Who was complaining then?

MI runner7771 wrote:

Keep it here wrote:

What this guy said....

I graduated and i was 18 yrs and about 40 days old, and the oldest kids in my graduating class were 18yrs and 150-200 days old. maton is currently older than i am, and i'm a college freshman. I am by no means below the average age for a college freshman.

He is old, but it's still quite the feat.

Most HS cutoffs are sept 1st or around three. So you're wrong and really bad at math. You are below the average age.

Which is more impressive? 18 yo College Freshman, Justyn Knight, runs 3:39.66 FTW (1500m) (worth 3:57.3) and 13:34 (5000m) or 19 yo HS senior, Maton, runs 3:59.3 mile?

I guess what will be most impressive will be: X runs sub 3:30 (1500m) and sub 13:00 (5000m) less than 4 weeks apart.

Let's see who will progress to become X eventually...