BUTLER!!!!!!!!!

Dead right Can Run, he'd injure them within weeks. I don't see too many break throughs or PB's being run from the current crop, just a ready made team.

Honestly...it's hard to assess Coach Franklin's coaching ability. Over the last 5-6 years Butler has been predominantly made up of talented, experienced foreigners(Mwangi, Fedmowski, Tucker, along with many others). The only young American runner that stands out is Justin Young...who was a talented Illinois HS runner before heading to Butler. Young definitely developed under Franklin and the Butler program...but not many others have, besides those foriegn athletes who had already proven themselves elsewhere. Franklin might not be the best at developing young talent...but he seems to be a very good overseas recruiter...and he does know how to keep those guys at a high level.

The whole situation is kinda touchy. Of course you'd like to see all coaches recruiting and developing young American talent...but on the flip side you also have to understand that every coach wants to win and secure his/her job. A fourth place finish at NCAA's will do that...and if he's playing by the rules there shouldn't really be any complaints.

Go dawgs!

i didn't think joe coached any of those guys. i always heard that their coaches from back home did, and the american kid(s) just kinda followed along.

The way foreigners move through Butler has confirmed my suspicions that they are a JUCO college.

actually butler is a very good school academically. i think some of the foreigners might just be grad students without a full 4 years of eligibility.

Thomas and John you are my heros.....Go Ligoniel!!! Good job Olly....Scott well done! Goodliffe you are the "American Dream" Sherman you da man..... Gary Blackman you are a KEVIN!

Tucker had a PB of roughly 14:30 when he came to Butler. I would say that he developed under Joe's coaching.

The foreigners that Butler gets are not the same foreign studs that Arkansas, Iona, Providence, or other schools with foriegn ties. The Butler foreigners were good runners across the pond, but have improved under Joe.

Give credit where credit is due. Joe has earned that/

As concerns Joe's coaching, you may be mistaken. From what I understand, Young was an average high schooler at best, who became a xc all american as a true sophomore. Fraser Thompson arrived at Butler a 14:15-20 guy and within a year had run 13:48. Tucker arrived about the same and within a year was 4th at NCAA xc. All programmes have success stories as well as athletes that don't reach their potential. If you want to question coaches how about looking at IU with their list of top draw americans, or stanford loaded with footlocker finalists (post lanana although I admit time will judge gerard), NC state, ditto. Like I said not all schools develop every talent that goes there, but to say that Joe simply recruits would be untrue.

Regardless, even if he did his job is about getting results, and 4th at nationals looks like a pretty good result to me.

The common link with most of these runners is Loughborough University. Joe seems to recruit those Brits that want to keep on running and see what happens from the best place in the Uk for running. All those guys are top blokes and they need to be bigged up for their achievements!

Michigan\\\'s top 3 runners are from NZ & Canada. 4th guy was a grad ass from Florida. All the good Michigan kids stay away from Ronnie. Ritz/Moore/Shay ect..

\\\"War-hurst\\\" could\\\'nt coach a 4:25 miler into a 33:00 10k\\\'er for all the tea in China. But he can take a 3:34 to 30:30

CMU takes 10 flat H.S. kids and turns them into 31:00 10k\\\'ers.

Who\\\'s the better coach?

Just like so many other programs, Franklin has been able to "jump start" his program with some foreign talent. ALL of the men have improved. What you may not realize, is that Franklin can coach. His coaching ability is best shown in two WALK-ON American athletes. Bill Peterman, 17min guy from Michigan has run 14:50, after spending almost two years out of running due to an injury. Then there is Monika Schneider, yeah she was "only" 141st at the NCAAs but she was there and she was a 5:34 miler in high school, now with a liftime best of right around 21min. There are tons of examples on that team that up and coming, just you wait! Fraser Thompson got the ball really rolling for the Butler men, and Lois Joslin-Bowles gave them the Loughborough connection. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I would predict that Butler will finally have some great American talent wanting to come right out of high school, why? They could go walk-on at Stanford, sit out a year, and then maybe get 6th at Nationals. Or they could pay a little less money, be a part of a team that gets 4th and be part of it when they are a junior or senior. Watch out--the Dawgs will be back!

Don't sleep on Tony Houchin, an overlooked element in Butler's success

butler underachieved.

There are all sorts of guys developing on Butler's team, led mainly by Tony Houchin (an assistant coach).

Joe lets Tony take the reigns of the walk-ons and he has had much success. Butler allows anyone to walk onto the team. Guys that ran 2:05 in high school are running 1:56, guys that ran 10:20 are running 15:25-15:30.

These leaps aren't huge, and these guys will never make the top seven. But, if you think these guys are missing out on opportunities due to foreign recruitment, you are dead wrong. These are the same guys running all over the course at nationals with their chests painted, yelling and screaming their hearts out. They are happy and excited for their teammates, not jealous of their spots.

Meanwhile, Joe has three major functions:

1. Get talent into the program.

2. Organize training sessions. Most foreign athletes want to keep their old coaches, and that is fine with Joe. However, no one works out on their own. Compromise is the name of the game. Joe looks at what everyone wants and needs, and then decides on workouts.

3. Manage a top-notch program on a small budget. Joe gets alumni donations, does fund raisers year-round, and busts his ass to organize indoor meets.

Does Joe deserve COTY? No. Does the Butler coaching staff? You had better believe it.

It's something our basketball team calls "The Butler Way." That means being lethal as a unit, rather than having success through individual efforts.

So, American and British recruits:

If you want to go to a top-notch school with personal instruction in the classroom and on the cross country course, and want to hang out with some badasses, go to Butler.

If you want nice warmups, top of the line facilities, and a good football team, don't come to Butler. You are a pussy. This sport requires two legs, a good heart, and support from everyone around you. Watch ROcky IV for the love of God.

As a bonus, you can go on vacations to Australia, South Africa, England, and Ireland without having to pay for hotels!

Congratulations, Dogs, we have finally arrived. Let's bring in some more people next year to carry on the tradition.

did someone really say that the wisco coach should have gotten coach of the year over franklin? are you kidding me, he maybe should get two awards, 1. best recruiter, and 2. worst coaching performance, but he shouldn't be in the top 50 for best coach. it was an utter disgrace that wisco didn't win NCAA's, there is no way that they should have lost with the team that they had. 2nd place for both awards would have to go to stanford.

I was at the Nationals meet, and the Butler fans were phenomenal. The Butler team seems to be more of a family than any other team I saw. In a recent article in the Indianapolis Star, Joe made reference to that 34 of the 37 team members were at the Regional meet in Ypsilanti, that is a 5 hour drive from Indianapolis. This shows great dedication from the fellow teammates to road trip that far to cheer on the team. The showing of Butler fans at Nationals was even greater than that of Regionals. I think this shows that great teams are built not only on talent but the attitude of the team as a whole. There might have only been 1 American running in the actual race for Butler, but it seemed to me that like Crocodile said "they are happy and excited for their teammates, not jealous of their spots" This is a true team.

Not to argue your point about fan support at Nationals...but considering they had the shortest trip of any team competing what else would you expect.

butler's coach can not coach home talent and that is a fact. i give young credit, but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while. fact of that matter is, he recruits foreigners rather than taking homegrown talent b/c he can't coach americans. and don't give me this crap about not having money, b/c every other school in their conference has just as little money as they do. there may be a foreigner here or there on the other teams, but not the whole freik'n team. its just ridiculous.

stop going overseas for a whole team. the ncaa's aren't supposed to be usa vs the world. i dont care and i am sure no one else cares about one or two on a team, but not a whole freik'n team.