Great NY Times Piece on Mary Cain: Mary Cain is Growing Up Fast

Immoral Minority wrote:

Charlie Stache wrote:

ugh, really? how about (just like he said) he watched her run and was interested in coaching her?

"When Cain’s mother realized the caller truly was Salazar, she felt profound relief. The Cains are practicing Catholics, as is Salazar. Had God sent Salazar their way?"

This part of the article nauseated me as well. Why do religious people - or people who aren't religious, for that matter - constantly feel the need to express these types of things. To each his own when it comes to spirituality and/or superstition, but keep it to yourself.

"Nauseated???" Really???

You can't understand how the mother of an extremely talented teenage girl would feel "profound relief" when a world class coach who at least claims to prize the same ethical and belief system as you do offers to coach your daughter?

Jonathan Gault wrote:

I thought it was interesting that Salazar expects her to run 3:55 and thinks she could get down to 3:52. Cain is a huge talent, no doubt, but no clean runner has even approached 3:52; it would be similar to a man running 3:24 or 3:23 which I don't see happening for a long time.

I don't see the astronomical level of talent or the tremendous speed AlSal spoke of. (Very talented=Yes) Cain's 400m speed is probably equal to or less than Decker and Gallagher and they didn't run away from a lot of people. Having 54x 400m speed is great for our milers who tend to be 1500/5K types, but is only about average for world class 800/1500 types.

And, Cain is training just as hard or harder than other junior phenoms did at the same age. AlSal mentioned her mileage as only 70mph as if that's nothing. For a world class female miler, 70mph is about average and perhaps above average for a junior athlete. I can see Cain going sub-4 in the next year or two and perhaps 3:56/7 over her career. Running 3:52 'clean' may not happen in any of our lifetimes; Cain linear progression is already starting to tapper off from 2 years ago. With all of that said, Cain is good and will get better, but the PRs going forward will be more incremental.

4runner wrote:"Nauseated???" Really???

You can't understand how the mother of an extremely talented teenage girl would feel "profound relief" when a world class coach who at least claims to prize the same ethical and belief system as you do offers to coach your daughter?

Yes, nauseated. Not literally, but figuratively. I understand "why" Cain's mother said what she did, but I get tired of religious wing-nuts thinking that a god actually intervenes in such ways.

What are you going to tell me next, 4runner, that God brought you to me so that I'd learn the error of my ways? Are you my very own guardian angel, sent to me through Devine Intervention so that I might not suffer for all eternity? Thank you, brother! Oh, wait, do I have to convert to Catholicism now...because I don't really want to be anywhere near one of those priests that God sent to watch over young men.

The article was wrong in saying that she went back to the girl's team. The boy's coaches left before her junior year after they had been coaching her and she refused to be coached by Jim Mitchel after that. He gave her workouts and trained her well for as long as she was running under him. She made the decision to separate herself from the girl's team and his coaching. It's a shame to see an extremely successful high school program and coach get bashed by her and her ignorant family.

lizzard wrote:

The article referenced that it was when she moved back to the girls program that the coach wouldn't give her workouts. Jim MItchell is an extremely well respected high school coach and has produced many state and national champions at Bronxville HS. Sounds strange that he would be ignoring MC and not giving her workouts.

Let's assume you are right. No god-- and the people running around ascribing things to intervention by a deity are fooling themselves.

Even with that assumption-- there is something very human about ascribing things to divine intervention. By all appearances, we humans are programmed genetically to see patterns when there are none. Most cultures on the planet have some form of a god (or gods), karma, or even general ideas about "fate." Heck-- the mere existence of the word "fate" in different languages suggests that humans are hardwired to ascribe random events to a higher power.

In despising or becoming nauseated by that nearly-universal human trait, you are despising or becoming nauseated by what appears to be a fundamental feature of the human condition.

It is kind of an unhappy way to go through life, isn't it?

Cain is from Bronxville, not the Bronx. They're not at all similar.

4runner wrote:

Immoral Minority wrote:

This part of the article nauseated me as well. Why do religious people - or people who aren't religious, for that matter - constantly feel the need to express these types of things. To each his own when it comes to spirituality and/or superstition, but keep it to yourself.

"Nauseated???" Really???

You can't understand how the mother of an extremely talented teenage girl would feel "profound relief" when a world class coach who at least claims to prize the same ethical and belief system as you do offers to coach your daughter?

Would you let a Catholic priest mentor your son?

Immoral Minority wrote:

Charlie Stache wrote:

ugh, really? how about (just like he said) he watched her run and was interested in coaching her?

"When Cain’s mother realized the caller truly was Salazar, she felt profound relief. The Cains are practicing Catholics, as is Salazar. Had God sent Salazar their way?"

This part of the article nauseated me as well. Why do religious people - or people who aren't religious, for that matter - constantly feel the need to express these types of things. To each his own when it comes to spirituality and/or superstition, but keep it to yourself.

So, just like you are spouting your opinion of them right now?

If someone feels a religious, social, personal (or whatever) connection to someone, it is valid. What is your problem?

If I were writing the article, I'd have tried to sneak in a Cain and Abel "easter egg" for my punster homies to trip across.

You do realize that the letters of Abel are a simple anagram for the first four letters of Alberto, right?

There is a phrase for this.

It's called "wishful thinking."

Here's the race in the article, just at beginning of Cain's anchor leg. Your welcome.

Where should Alberto artificially put the limit on what his people should run? He doesn't know. His educated guess probably is just a bit better than yours. One thing you may be missing is he may say she can run 3:52 and hopes she ends up at 3:55.

I think Alberto's greatest ability as a coach is to get his athletes to believe in themselves. He was the best in the world and he gets his athletes to believe they can be the best. They run way more aggressively than most of the other Americans. Look at Jordan Hasay, She'll die valiantly in races after hanging with the lead as long as possible. And a coach who gets his athletes to believe they can be the best doesn't say, "I only think Mary can run 3:57".

I think the form stuff is overrated except maybe for injury prevention. Mary Cain ran faster than anyone ever before in the high school ranks with pretty poor form.

I enjoyed the article. Got to know a little more about Mary Cain the person. Granted as Robert pointed out with the high school coach and Mary Decker, the author blew it.

With the length of the article I bet it will be in this weekend's Sunday magazine.

92.35% of LetsRun.com voters think the record is dirty from our doping polls

so it is pretty common knowledge on here that most people don't believe the record. Interestingly there is only one female record (Jarmila Kratochvílová's 1:53.2 800m) more people thought to be more dirty and that came in at 92.38%.

73.5% of our voters though Slaney was dirty

agip wrote:

Another HS Coach wrote:

I agree with Salazar that form is paramount to reaching one's potential, but I wish he knew what he was doing considering he's been trusted with the greatest female runner of all-time from the U.S.

right, because Mo has been carp since he joined salazar, and Centro only won one medal and Moser came back from the freaking dead - but how many medals has she won?, and Rowbury only won two events at USATF indoors. And Rupp - where was he this season? what a joke. And that canadian hack with the hair - what has he done lately? Probably nothing.

you're right man - I too wish salazar knew what he was doing in the mid d. .

I hear you. I think the workouts they do are likely excellent. The attention they get is unmatched. Their potential is also off the charts. I've heard him speak in person and could see the rapport he has with his athletes is good.

However, Salazar has said himself that he believe there is ONE proper way to move from a physics standpoint. And I agree with him. The problem is he doesn't know what the proper way is. And how could he? He doesn't know how to move properly himself.

He openly stated he's been trying to "correct" how Galen and Mary hold their head slightly forward of their body. Thankfully their instinct is strong enough not to even be ABLE to listen to that foolish suggestion. The head leads the body, but Alberto doesn't understand that.

Tirunesh has quite the "chicken wings" as well, and I'm sure Salazar would try to "fix" that if he could instead of trying to understand why it actually makes sense.

Nice read, nice write.

Enjoy The Sport!

DaveyGuy wrote:

Somthing did happen between Cain and her coach in late 2012 before Al Sal made the call to her home.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251680-USATF-5K-Championships-2014/article/28100-Mary-Cain-Found-Her-Calling-With-Alberto-Salazar#.VByuMHl0zDc

No one wants to talk about it and maybe it is best. Just move on and not get into small fights on the internet

Good article. It did containt one falsehood that anyone at USATF indoors last year is aware of:

Cain said:

When we sat down and talked to him, we also realized that he is the nicest guy in the world, and is really there for his athletes.

DaveyGuy wrote:

Somthing did happen between Cain and her coach in late 2012 before Al Sal made the call to her home.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251680-USATF-5K-Championships-2014/article/28100-Mary-Cain-Found-Her-Calling-With-Alberto-Salazar#.VByuMHl0zDc

No one wants to talk about it and maybe it is best. Just move on and not get into small fights on the internet

Thanks for sharing that. That's a good article and your conclusion is a good one.

When people won't talk, it's hard to get to the bottom of the story. But he asked the question and Cain answered with a good non-answer.

The one thing I didn't like about the story is how Battaglia went out of his way to not mention the name of the HS coach. I'd have mentioned his name and asked him for comment.

records check wrote:

reader of the forums wrote:

It seems to be pretty common knowledge to everyone in this thread except you.

So? The statement was "common knowledge", not " common knowledge to everyone in this thread" (which was only 2 people so far I think, hardly "everyone"). Even in your smaller context, which is stronger: the findings of the IAAF or the the unfounded opinions of 2 people on an internet forum?

T&F News does not accept the Chinese 1993 marks and cites 3:52.xx as the"real" record.

The article said prodigies are usually not accepted by their athletic peers? what a bunch of baloney, the teams and clubs I have been on the prodigies were accepted just fine, example Oklahoma state wrestling team Luke Skove, John Smith, Mark Perry, Bill Dykeman etc. Then I transferreed to Cal state Bakersfield, Tim Vanni, Dan Cuestas, Junior Saunders, Darryl Pope, Marvin Jones, Rich Bailey, Eric Middlestead etc. And the boxing clubs Irleis and Thomas Perez, Davey Armstrong, Bruce and Donald Curry, Roger Mayweather etc. all these and more all prodigies very high in the sport, all well likeg and accepted.