Is it acceptable to have a coach act as a rabbit?

a carbinal wrote:

I'm actually just curious on what basis he concludes that it isn't aiding.

Because I read the rulebook.

NCAA 2015-2016 Cross Country & Track & Field Rules wrote:

Assistance

ARTICLE 3. On the report of an official, or from a properly filed protest, the

referee shall warn or disqualify a competitor determined to have been directly or indirectly aided from inside the competition area by a coach, a teammate not in the event, or a noncompetitor connected with the competitor’s team.

a. For the purpose of this rule, the following shall be considered assistance, and therefore not allowed:

4) Pacing in races by persons not participating in the same race, by lapped

competitors or those about to be lapped, by competitors of the opposite

gender in the same race, or pacesetting by any kind of technical device

that benefits the field.

Any person (including a coach) may rabbit as long as he is in the race.

1. There is no 'conflict of interest.' Any head coach will naturally spend more time with the group that he is most suited for coaching and should have assistants for all the other groups.

2. He's not going to miss much while running on the track for a few minutes. Maybe a couple of field event attempts.

3. The athlete(s) might be plenty motivated but just poor at pacing themselves, or may not have anyone else to run with in a particular meet.

4. you mean like this?

5. In all seriousness, different approaches work differently for different programs; different athletes have different needs.

If we were talking about a volunteer coach, a grad assistant, or even assistant/event specialty coach I could be on the same page. This goes on with the head coach (who is also the mid-d and distance coach), for every workout, every run, and the majority of the races throughout both the XC and T/F seasons.

When he's working out with only his stellar 5k/10k runners on the track what benefit is he providing to his 5k/10k guys in a different pack? What about the 800/1500 guys that are doing a workout? What about the girls team altogether? He's providing "coaching" to, if we're lucky, a handful of guys during the workout--everyone else is given their session for the day and is on their own for pacing, gate analysis, in-workout decisions, and keeping splits.

Let's give this coach benefit of the doubt and say he needs a recovery day, he jogs the 6 mile run with the girls team; and he needs a speed session so he joins the 800 guys one day. That's great, but each day he's entirely missing training a large percentage of all mid-distance and distance male and female runners on the team.

To hit your points...

1. You're right, but again, he's the head coach and should be managing time with ALL areas and delegating personnel to manage all athletes accordingly. This coach's focus is on one segment only, and without even delegating others to do his job let alone balance managing all of the athletes.

2. To stay to your point of races...what about the guys in the race he's "pacing" that fall off pace? What about the guys on the team in the same race that are set to run a different pace? What about when the head coach decides to run alone altogether for the win or PR? Are any of those athletes entitled to having a coach during the race also?

3. With respect to racing, yes, I agree. But this is EVERY open meet the coach can run, he runs. This is when there is plenty of a known field to be at the meet for his runners to pace with and run against. And again, at what point would that fall on the coach for selecting a poor meet schedule for his athletes that season?

4. See how they're on the sidelines, watching, involved in the game? And by the coach being on the sideline he's available for the game AND the individual, as opposed to being at the bench with the individual when the play is on the field?

5. I completely agree with all of that. I completely agree with the idea of having a veteran runner, alumni teammate, etc train/race with the team and be available as a training partner/pacer where ever necessary (ie. grad asst, volunteer coach). They can talk to the runners during the workout/race, give on the fly advice. But the head coach is there to coach and to manage the team. And by being on the track he's not available for anyone else but who is running behind him, and he can't manage anything.

I have no idea what you are rabbiting about.

I do agree that all runners should run at the same pace and finish together. Some runners being faster than others is an insult to the rest of the team.

I agree that coaches rabbiting should be a minimal thing because a coach could miss out on other athletes and events. It is more than just the 4-15mn of the race, it is also warm up, cool down, etc...

A couple of points based on this discussion:

I think the story is completely different for different coaches. If a volunteer assistant or GA is primarily focused with one group (is 5k/10k men's group), then what I the harm of him training and pacing them? Just because he can pace the studs, it doesn't mean he always does. Even in the same workout, I might start with the studs, drop back to the 2nd group, then finish with the studs at the end. I'll go where the need is most based on what is going on.

I also only rabbitted one or two meets a year. These were meets we were required to attend but there was limited competition. Scheduling is not a buffet. Budget, travel, etc all play a role in what meets a team and individual attends. Often the 2nd tier runners get the shaft and I'd try to help them out at at the shitty meet they were entered in.

I don't see this as bad coaching or weak athletes, just doing what is necessary to help athletes-- while maybe, just maybe getting a workout in too.

Specific to the issue of someone pacing the 1200 of the DMR:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/MonthlyInterps13_14.pdf

March 2014:

g. Can there be pacer during the first leg of the DMR?

There is no current rule that would prohibit this practice.

Star wrote:

Positive Contribution wrote:

No conference meet is going to allow the coach to be in the race.

The main rule for rabbiting any race is the same:

The rabbit must be an official entrant of the race.

So a coach can't rabbit a conference meet because he couldn't be entered in the race.

Also, this rule is why Paula Radcliffe's 2:15 marathon world record is questionable.

She had male pacers in an all female race.

The London Marathon is not and was not an all female race.