How did Jim Ryun run so fast so quickly?

Wigins is Truth wrote:

There is proof that Ryun was on drugs for 'asthma'. He was 'treated' for it starting in high school. I am pretty sure that is a well known fact.

So? My girlfriend is treated for exercise-induced asthma too. Many people have exercise-induced asthma.

The point Wigins was implying, one that apparently went several meters over your head, was that Ryun was taking a drug in order to gain an advantage over his competitors, i.e., taking steroids or something similar, not that he took medicine period.

Criticizing someone who suffers from exercise-induced asthma for taking asthma medication is analogous to criticizing someone who suffers from malaria for taking malaria medication, and equally ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that "quickly" is the only way to run fast. Ever see a guy run fast slowly?

The idea that his having peaked at 20 is somehow linked to drug use is categorically absurd. It's this reverse logic, where people start with the conclusion (i.e. that he was on drugs) and twist whatever available evidence to suit themselves, that makes discussing PEDs on here so difficult. You also see in arguments that so and so must be a doper because he has a prominent jawline.

I've wondered the same thing the past 50 years. He started running his sophomore year . . . ran something like a 5:35 mile time trial in cross country. Then drops to 4:07 in track. Absolutely amazing. Mind boggling. Another question: how did Lindgren run those times in HS? Especially a 4:01 mile. I saw Ryun run a few times. He looked like Secretariat. Just watching him walk on the track, you knew he was incredible. But LIndgren?? And half the time he was injured in HS. Two amazing specimens.

Gary Oldman wrote:

Ryun would have probably been just as good with half the volume. Timmons had no idea where the point of diminishing returns or indeed no more returns at all was.

The presumption is always that the training each athlete does is 100% successful and necessary for them to run the times they did.

a completely unsupported, wild-assed guess. Could just as easily say "Ryun would have probably been just as good with double the volume"

Wigins is Truth wrote:

There is proof that Ryun was on drugs for 'asthma'. He was 'treated' for it starting in high school. I am pretty sure that is a well known fact.

What drugs?

But how did Ryun run so quick so fastly?

Jim Ryan ( born April 29, 1947 ) would have started highschool in 1961?

So what drugs would he have taken for asthma in 1961, and would they

have been performance enhancing other than opening up his airway.

Positive Contribution wrote:

But how did Ryun run so quick so fastly?

Functional overload in terms of volume and intensity without breaking down.

Jim Ryun was obviously the most talented high scool runner we've ever seen. But I don't believe he would have benefited much from the new training methods today. I do believe he was a high responder, and that his body was able to reap the benefits from his incredibly intense training and as a high schooler. The only problem being, it hurt him later on. Maybe if he was to gradually build up the intensity of his training past high school, he would have achieved those times, and possibly a good medal in (72)?

Roy D. Mercer wrote:

Gary Oldman wrote:

Ryun would have probably been just as good with half the volume. Timmons had no idea where the point of diminishing returns or indeed no more returns at all was.

The presumption is always that the training each athlete does is 100% successful and necessary for them to run the times they did.

a completely unsupported, wild-assed guess. Could just as easily say "Ryun would have probably been just as good with double the volume"

That kind of proves my point.... If he would be just as good with double the volume then he's just as good with half, no?

How??? wrote:

A 4:07 mile after 10 months of running.... as a high school er... his times are amazing but the amount of time it took for him to achieve those times are even more outstanding. How?

It was after 9 months of running. It's called freakish talent. Genetics. And go to youtube and watch races of him at his peak (especially that ridiculous last lap in Dusseldorf) and you'll see why a lot of people believe he finished up nowhere near his potential. Bad training and bad luck. But he still had some great results.

jjjjjjjj wrote:

still, you can't view Jim Ryun merely as a fantastic talent or high responder, because he had the swimming background that is also a key to Alan Webb's success, and that of quite a few of our other high school talents of that past, like the Mastalir brothers. And then Ryun had this extraordinary training of high mileage through intervals and somehow he was able to withstand it without breaking down or quitting for quite a few years.

Ryun wasn't a swimmer. What a crock.

The Sports Gene wrote:

The "High Responder" thing just seems like another way of saying he was really gifted. Jim Ryun tells this story that he was a bad runner at first. Nice story but not true.

He starts running with a group of normal high school runners. He has no idea that he is an order of magnitude more talented than them, so his first few races he is not near his potential. Then at some point it clicks mentally that he is different than his teammates, and he makes a sudden improvement. But the improvement has nothing to with responding to training, it was him figuring out how good he was.

Wrong. Ryun kept running faster each time out. He didn't have anything "click" in his head that led to sudden improvement. The weekly improvement is what led to him realizing he had some talent. What a bunch of disingenuous trolls.

Wigins is Truth wrote:

There is proof that Ryun was on drugs for 'asthma'. He was 'treated' for it starting in high school. I am pretty sure that is a well known fact.

Eh, no. He did get a shot of benadryl for allergies a couple of times lol. Hardly a PED.

Ryun was an incredible athlete, and I have absolutely no idea if he ever used PED's. I didn't even think about whether he even had an asthma treatment.

I'm just posting this link with regard to your comments regarding perceptions of doping in the 60's:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/sports/22hammer.html?_r=0

The following statements, for which I cannot verify their veracity, came from the article:

"It was after watching American doctors routinely give athletes testosterone injections..."

"It was a standard regimen in the days before testing and prohibition."

"...many athletes “had so much scar tissue and so many puncture holes in their backsides that it was difficult to find a fresh spot to give them a new shot.” "

But here is where the concern is drawn:

“But the danger factor is ridiculous. How about Nascar and boxers and football players, even without drugs? Maybe some good will come from all this fuss. We’ll find out more about drugs, like we found out more about alcohol and marijuana.”

What does he mean by, "even without drugs"? It seems he really doesn't wish to admit to the dangerous ramifications.

Seriously, to be clear, the linked article about a past Olympic thrower's PED use, probably has very little to nothing in common with a young high school Kansas boy that showed tremendous performance gains in a relatively short period of time. I think it was the training and the genes.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Can you prove he was clean?

We don't have to.

Bad Wigins wrote:

No. Then admit maybe he wasn't.

By working very, very hard. Ryun wasn't a swimmer but Timmons came from a swimming coaching background. He basically gave Ryun swimming workouts but multiplied the distance by 4 ie, 100m swim repeats became 400m run repeats. The method of giving a certain time to the run and the rest period is pure swimming coaching method.

Ryun combined reasonable quality of running - lots of intervals at slower than mile pace but significantly quicker than traditional mileage based athletes run - with a big volume of running. The big advantage of Ryun's method is that he got used to running fast when very tired. If you go for a 20 mile run you might get very tired towards the end and really have to work to maintain the speed - but that speed will be, say, 90sec per 400m, 6 minute mile pace. If you are doing 40x400 you will also get very tired and have to work to maintain the pace but the pace you have to maintain is much quicker and much closer to your racing pace. and the total volume of the session will be pretty similar to the 20 mile run.

Of course, this is very demanding and arguably cannot be sustained over several years; is this why Ryun was never the same athlete after 1967? Or was it because Timmons went a bit too far in 1968 in trying to increase the workload even more resulting in illness and injury and (possibly) mental burnout?

Basically, the answer the original question is, as several other posters have said, talent plus very hard work!