Controversy at CO State Meet

Former XC Runner wrote:

A "competitive advantage" because of a uniform LOL? Ran XC for many years. Won a lot of races and it had nothing to do with the uniform. Didn't see those with a "competitive advantage" behind me in the races as I was too busy racing for the win. These uniform police should stay out of XC as this kind of nonsense takes away from the kid's experience in the sport.

Sounds like you ran, but never coached or was ever in the hunt for a team title. There are a number of reasons why you want to be able to identify and know where your competition is during a race.

TrackCoach wrote:

Former XC Runner wrote:

A "competitive advantage" because of a uniform LOL? Ran XC for many years. Won a lot of races and it had nothing to do with the uniform. Didn't see those with a "competitive advantage" behind me in the races as I was too busy racing for the win. These uniform police should stay out of XC as this kind of nonsense takes away from the kid's experience in the sport.

Sounds like you ran, but never coached or was ever in the hunt for a team title. There are a number of reasons why you want to be able to identify and know where your competition is during a race.

Yes but this rule doesn't achieve that goal...you can be in legal uniforms and still skirt the intent.

VAcoach wrote:

If the uniform rule is intended to prevent a team from visual deception, then these other scenarios should equally be out of bounds (especially since it favors schools with more money).

Yep, bring out the stealth uniforms. Generic Nike black uniforms with small team name on it.

One year Wichita East was an underdog in cross country. Bob Timmons switched the outfits from blue with white trim to white with blue trim, and they won. Their opponents were looking for blue and were not able to see the, though they were running close together.

I personally think the uniform rules are silly.

Just run your best, and you won't have to worry about any such nonsense.

I dealt with coaches like this when I was in highschool. "Fxck them" is really all I can come up with in response to this. It never ceases to amaze me - the removal of common sense in favor of "rules are rules."

That's a great lesson to teach highschool kids - let's take away rational independent thought in favor of following the rules. That really sets them up for success right? You can see this everywhere. Cop pulls you over for rolling through a stop sign at 2am, even when there are no cars on the road and you had plenty of time to see if one was coming without coming to a complete stop.

But "rules are rules right" or in this case "laws are laws." It's sad to see this attitude pervert society. The counter-argument: "well if they let this team do it - then other teams might start doing it for a competitive advantage." Is also complete BS. Since when does a uniform control the outcome of a race? Oh right...never.

Yes the Salida coach should've known better and made sure his team had the same uniform, but that doesn't excuse the actions of the Alamoosa coach. Why is it so hard to make a rational decision based on the situation, and not simply "well the rules say this, so we better remove two of their athletes from the race."

I feel like this whole situation is a microcosm of the macrocosm that American society is becoming. Sad.

Dumb and Dumber wrote:

Has the great sport of track and cross country come to this low, base level of stupidity?

Unfortunately yes, it has.

The coach who complained is a dirtbag.

The point of the sport is about the athletes, about the kids and this piece-of-work valued his ego above those kids.

Shame on him.

Koppenberg wrote:

The coach who complained is a dirtbag.

The point of the sport is about the athletes, about the kids and this piece-of-work valued his ego above those kids.

Shame on him.

I put myself in his place and you're right. I can't imagine calling out a minor difference in uniforms creating a situation where two kids don't get to run in their state meet.

The other coach made a mistake about not making sure they match up, but for those of us who are coaches we know this can happen by mistake. I carry a couple of extra uniforms with me just in case so I don't have nightmares.

A funny story. Years ago an athlete my friend was coaching goes to the line and strips off his sweatpants. Whoops, forgot the shorts! He ran the race (poorly) in the sweatpants. They let him get away with it but it didn't matter anyway because of course he was slow.

I agree, the coach who complained is a total a$$hole. But what can you do? At least the field waited for them to change and some of them still got to run.

So in school you can't mark a kid down in PE for not buying a uniform due to financial reasons. But in sports we kick kids off the starting line?

At the least it should be a dq AFTER the race. Not before.

The Donger wrote:

At the least it should be a dq AFTER the race. Not before.

The process issue here should be the most important. Should a coach have standing to challenge the official's decision here? The officials de facto made a decision when they clerked in the runners at the line, then they checked the line. If the officials chose not to raise the issue with the team when they checked, should a coach be allowed to challenge that decision? If so when and how? The way this worked it seemed arbitrary. Proper procedures from the officials that are clearly communicated to coaches would go a long way.

Do they allow to wear more than watches on the wrist? Most states do not allow it since if is a violation of the uniform rule.

jjc

IWASTHERE wrote:

The uniforms pictured are not the uniforms in question. 5 uniforms had the S on the front, like the ones pictured. 2 uniforms said "Salida", which are not pictured. Rumor has it they were warned prior to the state meet.

Wrong, dead wrong, about the uniforms. And, all sorts of rumors fly when people try to justify their actions. Sounds like you've been listening to two false rumors.

I don't know all the facts, but if a coach DID protest those uniforms, he should be embarrassed publicly. That is absurd and unsporting.

Yes, there are any number of reasons for that. The thing is, the two versions of the uniform were visually identifiable. Same color, same pattern, same marking, same logo. The only difference was a snug vs. loose fit. 9/10 reasonable people would say they are the same uniform. They were visually identical.

Note this coverage from the Alamosa local paper, which celebrates the win while conveniently leaving out the fact that it was the Alamosa coach who raised the protest. Obviously, someone wasn't entirely proud of winning that way, nor should he have been.

“'It’s like a dream come true. We knew our boys could win it, and they did, and that really inspired our young ladies I think,' Alamosa coach Larry Zaragoza said...

Shortly before the girls race began, Salida runners Reggie Gramman and Kaitlyn Moltz were disqualified because the stitching on the outer seams of their uniforms didn’t exactly match the stitching on their teammates’ uniforms.

The Spartans were forced to scramble to decide which girls would race in the five uniforms that were deemed up to code by CHSAA officials, and were left to run shorthanded in the quest for a second straight team title.

'It’s my responsibility. We had some different stitching on the side, and somebody called it on us. We had about two minutes before the race started, which didn’t give us much time to change,' Salida coach Kenny Wilcox said."

http://www.chieftain.com/sports/3005189-120/alamosa-team-girls-race

yesandyes wrote:

The Salida Coach was man enough to step forward and state that this was fully his fault. That was huge and proper. Coaches make mistakes all the time and this was one of those.

Well he could step forward and take the blame, or he could let the blame fall on him. Either way, it is on him.

How the hell in this day and age can a coach not be aware of this sort of thing? How many stories like this have we seen? This is almost the equivalent of not requesting a bus/van and finding out on the day of the race they have no way to get there. Basic crap.

That said... it is a nit-picky rule.

That's actually not the Alamosa local paper. That is a Pueblo paper. Pueblo is better than two hours drive from Alamosa, though it is the nearest major city to Alamosa.

The Alamosa paper (www.alamosanews.com) has an article about the title but is behind the subscriber wall. The sports editor for the Alamosa paper is an assistant coach (not sure if he is the assistant coach in question) for Alamosa cross country.

yes, the problem with America is that too many people follow the rules. We should be more like, say, Mexico, where people follow fewer rules. We would be much better off that way. (sarcasm)

I mean, I know what you mean, but lord - what makes rich nations rich is following the freaking rules.

But I think this alamosa coach is a putz in this instance.