What did you do / change in your training before your biggest breakthrough?

Greater intensity, less volume. Very few formal interval sessions because I didn't have a track to train on at home Sunday mornings were the only time apart from races I set foot on a track) but lots of short & hard interval sessions on good quality grass but without exact distances and timing.

Most important thing was that I began the track season well in May ; confidence soared and managed to maitain form until end of August when I ran a pb 1500 3:53.0 at age 16.

After this year did more volume, did set a few pbs but never ran as well relatively speaking. Suffered serious injuries from age 19 onwards.

Lots of things.

1. Dumped my girlfriend

2. Cut back to 80mpw (had done 100 previous season)

3. Got diagnosed with EIA

4. Increased average pace of my training runs by about :30/mile.

5. Pretended there was no pressure

ran slower..

used to run 6 days a week, all runs hard effort.

switched to doing a longer long run, 20-30mi instead of 15-20, run at a much easier pace. other 5 runs stayed the same. went from 3:08 to 2:45 marathon..

More days off; 40 minute tempo run on occasion instead of interval workout; one long run per week.

Tempo run was missing throughout high school. Too much intensity in high school and college for that matter. I really see no need for 95% of runners to do two a days. You are better off sleeping in. Day off a week is mandatory but everybody is too anal and fears a loss of conditioning if they take time off.

I'm 45 and run every other day now (25 miles a week) and am closing in on my high school pr for 5k - 16:20. I did the 16:20 after a 1000 mile summer (LSD). That type of training just made me a long slow runner. I do a quarter of that now and thirty years later almost as fast.

LESS IS MORE. Quality beats quantity. Rest is as critical as training.

High school schedule

Monday - intervals

Tuesday - meet

Wednesday - easy

Thursday - intervals

Friday - easy

Saturday - meet

Sunday - long run

College

Monday - Hill Workout pm - 4 or so miles in am

Tuesday - easy pm - 4 or so miles in am

Wednesday - Intervals

Thursday - easy pm - 4 or so miles in am

Friday - easy

Saturday - meet

Sunday - long run

Also, running solo has its benefits. Running with others often leads to every practice becoming a competition and burn out.

Save racing for the races. Worry about hitting your pace at practice and not somebody else's.

started running twice a day

Consistent high mileage, doing 2 runs a day consistently, sleeping a lot, being confident in races

Stopped running/racing marathons, did more consistent speed work. Nothing fancy: 400m reps at mile pace or faster, long runs with some MP, usually 16mi.

28/29 y/o female with minimal college running and 12 marathons since 2006

old PRs:

1600 - 5:17 (high school)

3200 - 11:17 (high school)

5k road - 17:34

8k - 29:27

10k road - 36:39 (only broke 37:00 once)

half - 1:21:42

full - 2:58:35

new PRs, set within the last 12months:

indoor mile - 5:12 (full mile, not 1600)

3k - 10:17 after 5:12 double

2mi - 10:57 road race split

5k road - 17:10

5k track - 17:22 (horribly sick at Penn)

8k - 27:53

10k road - 35:07

Consistency was key for me. Not high mileage or more intense workouts but getting in a good year of training without interruptions was when I really saw the gains in my racing. I had a longer track season and consistently got better each race, pring as the season went on.

Mr Anderson: nice work with 16:20 at age 45! It is like you are new (or Neo) again. And off of 25 miles per week--wow!

Another thing I changed the year I had a big improvement in the 1500 was that I mentality focused on different aspects of my races as the season progressed.

I had been losing focus and contact on the third lap.

So, I my first race I treated it like a 1200, running hard the third lap, and then finishing the last 300 with whatever I had. That was a big breakthrough to experience that.

The next race was a slow first 800 and hard finish over the last 700.

The next two races were more even and complete and my PR dropped 10 seconds over the prior year.

Great question, great thread. While I am still a "baby" in my running (though not chronologically) as many of you have far more experience, I have made some strides in the past several months. I find the discussion here very interesting, as much of it has to do with the efficacy of the weekly long run and/or increasing one's overall volume. I would have to say that keeping a staple long run has helped me. Last year, most of my runs were six or seven miles, and now I am up to a weekly 12-15 miler, and it has really paid dividends, the most obvious being the fact that I recently ran a ten mile race at a faster pace than my 10k PR (6:39 vs 6:34). Hence, I improved in both speed and endurance. My easy days are also easier, although I gather I probably never run a true easy run. For me, easy pace should be around 8:00, but my easier days are around 7:30-7:40.

I add: eat ogranic, or at least all-natural, rest well, and take good supplements.

I am in my mid forties, and I hope for more breakthroughs. I wish all well, and the input here has been excellent.

I'm shooting for a similar 5K time (although I'm more than a decade younger than you) and I'd really be interested in hearing more about your training. What's an average week like for you?

As I said, I'm closing in on 16:20. Current 5k pr (over 40) is 17:24 (back in July) but if I can get under 17 this year, I may have a shot at 16:20 next year. I've got a few more 5ks lined up this year to try to break 17.

I just follow Jack Daniels' book and modify it for an every other day runner. I'll add some detail when I get more time.

I changed my diet to include intravenous microdoses of erythropoietin and a bit of somatotropin. Works wonders.

Typical week for me

Sunday - 8-10 miler at easy pace as prescribed by Dr. Jack Daniels. My easy pace is right around 7:26 - 7:34 per mile. I try not to run any faster and often have to slow down. Easy runs have specific physiological benefits. No sense going faster or you don't reap those benefits. I think "quality junk" was the phrased Daniels used and that there is no sense in doing quality junk (faster than prescribed pace running). I think he mentions in his book that runners typically run easy workouts too fast and hard workouts too slow. I think I used to run everything too fast.

Tuesday - 7-8 miler again at easy pace. 1 or 2 days a week I will do 6 reps of 10-15 second sprints up a fairly steep hill for speed work in addition.

Thursday - if no race scheduled for week, either interval session or tempo run. Tempo run will generally be 40 minutes at 6:20 pace. Favorite types of interval workouts - 5 x 1200m at 4:07 average with 3:30 rest in between each; 8 x 1000 at 3:28 average with similar amount of rest between each. I gave up on using the local track as it is always busy with some event so I just run intervals on the grass on a course I made up at a local park. Fairly flat but not completely so.

Saturday - 7-8 miler at easy pace or 6 x 300m at around 49 with full recovery between each (4-5min) - also done on grass

Running every other day keeps me almost injury free. I still have issues now and again but if I have a slight hitch in my giddy-up, I know I'll have a day off tomorrow. Could I do better on a 5 day or more a week schedule? Sure. Would I find myself taking more time off as a result? probably. Weekly mileage is figured based on 3.5 day schedule.

Easy days easy. Hard days hard. I'm a 25:30 8k cross guy and hardly ever run under 8:00 pace on easy days

+1 on the liver, also doubles. Always easy in the AM.

I've had several fairly large breakthroughs:

Four biggest breakthroughs:

1) from a 2:02 to 1:56 800 meter runner in high school

2) from a 4:30 miler to a 4:17 miler (& a 2:28 1000 meters) & a 27:00 to a 26:09 8k in college

3) from a 26:09 to a 25:25 8k runner post-collegiately

4) from a 4:17 miler to a 3:54 1500m runner post-collegiately

Tell me which breakthrough is the most significant, and I'll tell you what I think is responsible for it.