Canova: "By two more marathons, [Bekele] will be under 2:03"

fan of US distance running wrote:

Geb has run faster at 1500m, has a world indoor title at the distance, and has run faster at the marathon by over 1 minute.

You cannot declare Bekele as the GOAT. If he breaks the marathon WR, then I think it is a fair assertion. Not until then.

And Bekele has him beat by much more in xc performance. I don't even know why I'm responding to you. You don't even believe in science and research.

Two points, one - I was merely arguing with your categorization of Bekele as just another East African marathoner, goat has nothing to do with the discussion. You are way off there.

Two, a win at Chicago in 2:05 is nothing to sneeze at, that is wanjiru territory.

fan of US distance running wrote:

Geb has run faster at 1500m, has a world indoor title at the distance, and has run faster at the marathon by over 1 minute.

You cannot declare Bekele as the GOAT. If he breaks the marathon WR, then I think it is a fair assertion. Not until then.

Whoa. You deserve the dunce cap.

I believe Bekele will run a CR in Sunday but not a WR. He will then set the WR at Berlin next year.

Yeah that did come across a little muddled, especially when you said he isn't the goat anymore.

But like I said, I agree he definitely isn't the best in the marathon. That's why this race is so interesting. And frankly, the same thing ("...shown anything at all at his current age and with his recent race results that suggests he will set a WR in the marathon.") can be said about Kimetto. He ain't no spring chicken, either.

odok wrote:

And Bekele has him beat by much more in xc performance.

You would expect the 10,000m world record holder to be good at XC.

You wouldn't expect the marathon world record holder to be a world indoor champion over 1500m, or to be the second fastest ever indoors.

odok wrote:

I don't even know why I'm responding to you. You don't even believe in science and research.

Not sure where you're getting that from.

stinky pinky wrote:

fan of US distance running wrote:

Geb has run faster at 1500m, has a world indoor title at the distance, and has run faster at the marathon by over 1 minute.

You cannot declare Bekele as the GOAT. If he breaks the marathon WR, then I think it is a fair assertion. Not until then.

Whoa. You deserve the dunce cap.

What specifically have I said that you disagree with?

fan of US distance running wrote:

odok wrote:

And Bekele has him beat by much more in xc performance.

You would expect the 10,000m world record holder to be good at XC.

You wouldn't expect the marathon world record holder to be a world indoor champion over 1500m, or to be the second fastest ever indoors.

odok wrote:

I don't even know why I'm responding to you. You don't even believe in science and research.

Not sure where you're getting that from.

Your post makes no sense.

Geb was a 10000m and 5000m record holder also but never dominated xc. Bekele never tried to be indoor 1500m champion so you can't compare that. Bekele wins this clearly.

You don't believe in science and research. In this thread a couple of days ago...

(http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=6049629&thread=6048418#6049629)

...you said you didn't believe in science and research. In the 4th and 10th posts on that page.

fan of US distance running wrote:

You would expect the 10,000m world record holder to be good at XC.

Then what the hell happened to Geb in xc?

And there is "good", and then there is FIVE STRAIGHT DOUBLE WINS (with a jr win/sr silver double thrown in, a 6th sr long course gold thrown in, and what would have very likely been SEVEN straight long course wins if not for the insane heat of KEN in 2007) GOOD. That's not "good", that unprecedentedly, insanely, magnificent.

fan of US distance running wrote:You wouldn't expect the marathon world record holder to be a world indoor champion over 1500m, or to be the second fastest ever indoors.

True, and props to Geb for that. However, Bekele's 1500 pr is only slightly slower than Geb's 1500 pr, and as we now know (thanks to Rupp and Salazar), the best indoor tracks are very close to being as fast as the best outdoor. Furthermore, if memory serves me, Bekele's 1500 pr was far from perfectly paced. In short, Bekele was likely capable, with a little focus, of matching Geb at 1500. We will see if he matches him or surpasses him at the marathon. If he does (runs a faster marathon, or wins a major championship at the marathon distance), then of course the case is closed, and Bekele is above Geb (many say he already is). He is nearly there. This is likely one of his major motivations.

odok wrote:

Your post makes no sense.

Geb was a 10000m and 5000m record holder also but never dominated xc. Bekele never tried to be indoor 1500m champion so you can't compare that. Bekele wins this clearly.

Again, you would expect the 5000m & 10,000m WR holder to be good at XC.

Being WR holder at the aforementioned distances and winning a world indoor title over 1500m and being the second fastest ever at the distance indoors combined with twice breaking the marathon world record is a more impressive accomplishment than winning world xc many times.

odok wrote:

You don't believe in science and research. In this thread a couple of days ago...

(http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=6049629&thread=6048418#6049629)

...you said you didn't believe in science and research. In the 4th and 10th posts on that page.

No, I said:

"You don't need to conduct research yourself to know that something is true."

For example, I don't need to conduct a physics experiment to know that gravity is roughly 9.81 m/s²

Nowhere did I say I don't believe in science & research.

None of the other guys have ever set or even approached Bekele's records so why does it matter when he set them?

fan of US distance running wrote:

Again, you would expect the 5000m & 10,000m WR holder to be good at XC.

Being WR holder at the aforementioned distances and winning a world indoor title over 1500m and being the second fastest ever at the distance indoors combined with twice breaking the marathon world record is a more impressive accomplishment than winning world xc many times.

You are repeating yourself. Again.

Again, "good at X-C" is a ridiculous way to describe Bekele's accomplishments at X-C. Really, you can do better. And if Bekele was only "good at X-C", which one "would expect the 5000m & 10,000m WR holder to be", then why was Haile not so "good", and how *would* you describe Haile at X-C, horrible? (if bekele only registers as "good" then that seems like an appropriate description of Haile if we are using such a strange scale. ).

Again, Bekele was almost as fast as Geb at 1500.

Again, Bekele has started out in the marathon a lot faster than Geb. He may very well run faster than Geb at the marathon.

Bekele: same range as Geb, a zillion x more x-c titles, more track OG's, better track 5k/10k doubles, faster, longer lasting 5k/10k WR's.....

Need we say more?

fan of US distance running wrote:

No, I said:

"You don't need to conduct research yourself to know that something is true."

For example, I don't need to conduct a physics experiment to know that gravity is roughly 9.81 m/s²

Nowhere did I say I don't believe in science & research.

And how exactly would you know that it is 9.81 without conducting the research?

Bekele is good at XC. I don't understand why you're taking such an issue with the adjective I've used to describe his accomplishments when I've made it clear he is the more accomplished athlete at that discipline, and noted that he won many titles.

Bekele is the GOAT at XC.

Now please stop harping on my choice of adjective.

Haile being "not so good" at XC is your assertion, not mine, so I wouldn't be able to elaborate on that for you.

To answer your other question, I would describe Haile is good at XC too. He has medals from both junior and senior races. Not as many as Bekele though, which is why I never stated he was better at XC.

Bekele was slower outdoors than Geb was indoors. If we accept your assertion that indoor tracks are not much slower, or not at all slower than outdoor tracks, then the fact that the indoor records are all slower would mean that the athletes were not in top shape during the indoor season.

Meaning Geb ran faster indoors when not in top shape than Bekele did during the outdoor season, when athletes are in top shape.

Geb is faster over 1500m and over the marathon. He also has a world indoor title over the former distance and the distinction of being the 2nd fastest ever indoors over the distance, and twice broke the world record over the latter distance.

The question is, do you find Geb's accomplishments at these distances enough to cement his place above Bekele, who has superior achievements in XC?

My opinion is that the answer is "yes." Maybe you don't agree. That's fine. It's a subjective statement anyways. And I really don't understand why some posters (several in this thread) feel the need to say someone is stupid because they hold a different opinion over a subjective question (not accusing you of doing this).

odok wrote:

fan of US distance running wrote:

No, I said:

"You don't need to conduct research yourself to know that something is true."

For example, I don't need to conduct a physics experiment to know that gravity is roughly 9.81 m/s²

Nowhere did I say I don't believe in science & research.

And how exactly would you know that it is 9.81 without conducting the research?

Because people that assert this to be true use it during their calculations. And their calculations work. For example, NASA being able to successfully send ships into space is evidence that this is true. If it were not, many of these missions would end in utter disaster.

Dude. Just be quiet, let Chicago and Bekele's next marathon happen, then come back. Once he breaks 2:03:57, your argument is hinging on ONE time Geb has that is better than Bekele's.

And again, I have no doubt that before this is all over, Bekele will have the marathon WR. It'll be fun to watch next year.

odok wrote:

fan of US distance running wrote:

No, I said:

"You don't need to conduct research yourself to know that something is true."

For example, I don't need to conduct a physics experiment to know that gravity is roughly 9.81 m/s²

Nowhere did I say I don't believe in science & research.

And how exactly would you know that it is 9.81 without conducting the research?

Also, I should point out that if it were the case that one had to personally conduct research to know that something was true, then only people who conduct research would know anything. This of course excludes the vast majority of people in the world.

Do we live in a world where only researchers or people who conduct experiments know anything? I think most would agree this is not the case.

Do you personally conduct research to verify the validity of all of your beliefs before asserting you know these things to be true? No, of course not.

fan of US distance running wrote:

Because people that assert this to be true use it during their calculations. And their calculations work. For example, NASA being able to successfully send ships into space is evidence that this is true. If it were not, many of these missions would end in utter disaster.

And how do they know it? Because of science and research.

You said you didn't need it, but now you are saying that you do need it. You have been caught in your own lie. You are wrong.

lulz wrote:

Dude. Just be quiet, let Chicago and Bekele's next marathon happen, then come back.

Forums are for discussion. If you don't want to read my opinions, the solution is simple. Don't read them. Look away from the computer screen.

lulz wrote:

Once he breaks 2:03:57, your argument is hinging on ONE time Geb has that is better than Bekele's.

Bekele hasn't broken 2:03:57. You're taking objection with a statement based on something that hasn't yet happened. This is an absurd way to view things.

lulz wrote:

And again, I have no doubt that before this is all over, Bekele will have the marathon WR. It'll be fun to watch next year.

Maybe. We'll see.