M400m: Why has it basically stalled for decades?

jon o wrote:

Bolt could run sub 43 if he was serious about it. You do know he ran very fast over 400 at a very young age don't you.?

Bolt was ALWAYS better at 200 than 400 from a young age

Tyson Gay has run faster 400s off 100/200 training but he doesn't have a hype train of clueless fanboys like Bolt

Someone who might have 400 potential would be better at 200 than 100 like Alonso Edward or Warren Weir but Bolt is not one of those people

insaneboltus wrote:

The 400m is like a marathon for a fast sprinter. It hurts.

I don't think it is the racing of a 400 that is the biggest problem, it is the training.

Marathons are easy to train for since you just need to go out and slog a bunch of miles.

Bolt dropped down to the 100 because he didn't want to train for the 400, but he would still run one early in the season in a race.

SO OBVIOUS THAT doping is why .

finishing like a train in last 100m

all to do with high hematocrit .

even better if can train with one all year round .

I think we first saw EPO use in track in 400m in

zurich 1988 .

got a nice quack off big pharma before even hit market

afew years later.

400mh no chance without epo regardless of steroid use

as for m .johnson what would of he ran without it

and just steroids is your guess , what top guys doing now.

Wariner had micera until summer 2008 .

dont believe what been sold

dopers unite........

areusure? wrote:

We thoroughly cover the LA clearance in our UG Ex. Phys classes.

If your UG classes are still calling it "lactic acid" you should find some better sources. The conversion of pyruvate to lactate does not produce H+, so there is no "lactic" about the acidity.

But even if lactate clearance were the cure for acidosis, how is exercise supposed to improve liver function? Not that it would apply to the 400 meters in which clearance is irrelevant. I think "buffering" is what you were after, but the cells buffer acidity from pyruvate with lactate dehydrogenase, meaning the more they buffer, the more lactate they produce and the sooner they have to release it into the blood, along with H+ ions to balance it out. This is part of what I meant by "self-limiting." You pay the price for every molecule of pyruvate produced with a molecule of H+ that ends up in the blood, there's no way around it.

Sprinters hit the acid wall at about 40 seconds all out. This is true for everybody, whether your 40 seconds is 250 meters or 380 meters. Years of elite training should result in an extension of this time limit, if "lactic acid" tolerance were possible. But nobody has ever sprinted all out for an entire lap. So real-world evidence strongly suggests that it's not possible.

jon o wrote:

Bolt could run sub 43 if he was serious about it. You do know he ran very fast over 400 at a very young age don't you.?

Regarding your question, the answer is not to try to improve buffering, but to use more elastic return from the muscles, just as it is in any race. So I agree with your point, that is what MJ was doing.

I'm aware that Bolt ran about 1.5 seconds slower than the world junior record when he was 20.

If he'd committed to 400 then, he'd have gotten faster, but there's no way of knowing how fast. He might have been the freak of nature required to go sub 43, but it's too late now since the power he's developed as a short sprinter would limit him.

Because steroids.

The 400 training regimen is grueling and most sprinters stay away from

it.I know,because I ran the Qtr.It really is a suicide regimen.The pain,the

headaches,body aches,throwing up,it's the ultimate test of will.Bolt has

the speed to go under 43 but doesn't have the stomach for the arduous training it will take.

Didn't Bolt run a 43.xx split during a relay a few years ago? I believe it was at the Jamaican championships around 2009-2010.

400m training abit tougher but not ULTIMATE TEST OF WILL...

go back to rock crawled ....

there is such a thing called steroids that make

recovery alot easier .

as does high hematocrit mediated by epo .

Bolt or nobody will get close without a new endurance drug cant rock up to a race now with a sky high hct .

oh sorry bar this year if the few elite athletes that could

prove using xenon then good old iaaf once again turn .....

anyway if from country that tests athletes ,difficult

as need to be abusing high hct throughout training

also why wariner and bekele were lucky boys could abuse

that type of epo year round .

obvious why a certain m.johnson was so confident in

wariner as knew exactly what was going on .

Cant-stand-ya wrote:

A 43.xx relay split is a far cry from a 43.xx race...

How so?

He ran 43.6 in that leg...in February.

I beg to differ:

Keep in mind he did that in EARLY MARCH!! Yes, yes I know it was a relay split but again...EARLY MARCH!!

Guys he ran a 55 second high school 400 meters and threw up...

You are someone who does not know and does not know that he does not know.

In other words,you are an ignoramus.

HardLoper wrote:

You can't sprint all-out for a 200 so of course you can't for a 400.

I mean at maximum effort, not maximum speed. Anaerobic glycolysis lasts up to almost 400 meters, if you are fast enough to get there in close to 40 seconds. For most of us it's more like 300 meters.

Nobody has ever sprinted at maximum effort for 40 seconds and not started to rig. If they didn't, it wasn't a maximum effort.

and he walked it in at the end.