This is the best racing. It shows who has the best tactics. Most runners are too hung up on times instead of competing. Awesome race.
This is the best racing. It shows who has the best tactics. Most runners are too hung up on times instead of competing. Awesome race.
Cram versus Coe and Gonzalez at the '86 Euros was a similar close in a 3:41 race.
Keppler, Johnny wrote:
This is the best racing. It shows who has the best tactics. Most runners are too hung up on times instead of competing. Awesome race.
It's like seeing the winner of the biggest losers, so what.
Hey...Douche nozzle!!... Look at the times! I know, on this thread you want to hold fast to the purest intent of the OP. Don't be silly!! These times, run on the best tracks today are being run with slow times (3:48 +/-). The time referenced with Jim Ryun was on a dirt track...easily worth 1second if run on a modern track.... And finishing in 3:38+/-...a full 10 seconds faster than other referenced races. It is relevant. Don't be the tool you just made yourself out to be. It is worth bringing up in this thread and for all the right reasons!!!
ventolin's 9th personality wrote:
ventolin^3 wrote:Ryun's run was on a dirt track where a 10k had been run earlier
his final time was 10.7s faster than souly but souly ran a quicker 3rd lap of 56-low v 58-low ( probably about 1s difference considering dirt v synthetic )
Ventolin, this constant line of reasoning of yours is wrong. A dirt track isn't automatically slower than a synthetic track. Dirt surfaces vary too much.
The fact that a 10k was run on it prior to Ryun doesn't make sense either. That 10k could have made the track worse or it could have in fact made the track better by flattening and compacting the dirt. This is what I have seen happen on dirt trails in xc races. By the end of the race the dirt is packed much harder than before the race.
You actually need to go out and measure the surfaces. You cannot simply conclude that dirt and used track is slower than synthetic. With that now said, you need to be fair and provide estimates for BOTH the dirt slowing Ryun down and the speeding him up.
The inescapable fact that you left out was that Souleiman's race was run very differently than Ryun's. Don't be dishonest.
1) Cinder is not dirt.
2) We've never seen a complete video of the much-touted Ryun race posted here. Splits are very often wrong.
ventolin's 9th personality wrote:Ventolin, this constant line of reasoning of yours is wrong
no
A dirt track isn't automatically slower than a synthetic track
utter drivel
name me 1 dirt track any guy who has run on who claimed it was as fast as a synthetic
i ran on plenty of dirt tracks & i can tell you that is a ludicrous claim
Dirt surfaces vary too much
between slow & real damn slow
The fact that a 10k was run on it prior to Ryun doesn't make sense either. That 10k could have made the track worse or it could have in fact made the track better by flattening and compacting the dirt
or usually it becomes ridden with potholes as the homestretch of the brief Ryun vid shows
you tried running a 1500 on pothole riddled dirt ???
This is what I have seen happen on dirt trails in xc races. By the end of the race the dirt is packed much harder than before the race
& i spent my early life doing virtually all my training on dirt & different dirt tracks for variety
they were slow & terrible tracks even moreso if i came late to the track & lots of guys had already run on it
You actually need to go out and measure the surfaces
Epstein talked to guys who did
they said 1.5% slower for presumed pristine dirt
You cannot simply conclude that dirt and used track is slower than synthetic
yes you can when you ave run enough on dirt
when i'd come late to the training & saw the state of the chewed up track i knew my training times were going to be meaningless & most of time was spent trying to avoid potholes
With that now said, you need to be fair and provide estimates for BOTH the dirt slowing Ryun down and the speeding him up
utter drivel
how is it going to speed him up ???
The inescapable fact that you left out was that Souleiman's race was run very differently than Ryun's. Don't be dishonest.
nonsense
Ryun went out 2'03+ then 50.5 finish including wide penultimate bend worth ~ 0.3s handicap, with 36.5 finish
souly went 2'15 then 50.1 with 36.8 finish
the only significant dfference is souly went out damn slow but still had a slower last 300 & he had advantage of synthetic v chewed up dirt
lol lol lol lol wrote:We've never seen a complete video of the much-touted Ryun race posted here. Splits are very often wrong.
no
but a non-Ryun fan claims to have dvd & he has offered splits
he says 50.5 / 36.5
he says he is unclear on 1200 - 1300 split
he never bothered listing earlier race splits
Dean, with the remarkably slow pace on the first and second laps (roughly 1 hr pace on the first lap, marathon pace on the second lap), it does have to be pointed out that they absolutely should have had virtually everything left, so they should have been running 1:46/47 800m pace for the last 700m. It would be much more impressive for them to have done this or close to it off of 2:03 800m, like Ryun (Ryun having run a bit slower on the penultimate lap of the race, 58, to 56 here), as that it is 3k-5k pace, not jogging.
Don't make us laugh with your so called training exploits! All of a sudden you have a history of running on a variety of tracks and try to make out you had some sort of ability. Absolute garbage. I'd be surprised if you ever set foot on a track considering you spend all your time watching every race that was ever run on the expensive satellite channels you are so often telling us about.
idiot
you peabrain not comprehend all that were available to uni guys in '70s were dirt tracks, but plenty of them in a big city
you were hardly out of diapers in '70s
don't talk about an era you have no sentient experience of
your drivel about kasheef v coe 400 was embarassing
only an adult, experienced fan at the time was expecting other than a 44-high/45-flat that day for coe based on previous observation of elites
you haven't a clue about the '70s
my running talent of limited ability didn't stop me taking meticulous note of my runs
as for satellite, when the hell did you spend $500 in '80s in order to put up a dish in order to see worldwide sports ???
ventolin^3 wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:We've never seen a complete video of the much-touted Ryun race posted here. Splits are very often wrong.no
but a non-Ryun fan claims to have dvd & he has offered splits
he says 50.5 / 36.5
he says he is unclear on 1200 - 1300 split
he never bothered listing earlier race splits
Yes. And Aouita was commonly quoted as running the last 100 of his first foray under 3:30 in 11.6, when it was actually about 1.5 seconds slower. And Ovett was quoted as running the last 200 of his '78 EU 1500 win in 24.6ish when it was actually about a second slower.
And so on.
lol lol lol lol wrote:Yes. And Aouita was commonly quoted as running the last 100 of his first foray under 3:30 in 11.6, when it was actually about 1.5 seconds slower
no
vid shows he is ~ 1.5m ahead of a faint track marking as clock with 0.01s error flickers to 3'17 ->
~ 12.89
his last 400 shows him ~ 6.5m behind 1100 when clock flickers to 2'36 ->
~ 52.78
And Ovett was quoted as running the last 200 of his '78 EU 1500 win in 24.6ish when it was actually about a second slower
in a rubbish 54+ last lap
no 36+/50-flat
And so on
no
"owner" of Ryun dvd says there is a running clock
same as common back then for big meets
as in Ryun's 3'51.1WR
Can we reduce the bickering and perhaps post link to video of the race? I know the conti cup 5k video was up in the auto play video player on the right hand side. The footage was awesome, and if they have something like this for the 1500m that would make me wet my pants.
ventolin^3 wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:Yes. And Aouita was commonly quoted as running the last 100 of his first foray under 3:30 in 11.6, when it was actually about 1.5 seconds slowerno
vid shows he is ~ 1.5m ahead of a faint track marking as clock with 0.01s error flickers to 3'17 ->
~ 12.89
Off your meds again?
ventolin^3 wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:We've never seen a complete video of the much-touted Ryun race posted here. Splits are very often wrong.no
but a non-Ryun fan claims to have dvd & he has offered splits
he says 50.5 / 36.5
he says he is unclear on 1200 - 1300 split
he never bothered listing earlier race splits
Exactly. An anonymous poster claims to have a DVD and claims to have splits. We don't know whether they are right are wrong but they are just claims until we have definitive proof. Many people claim to have been abducted by aliens, do you believe them also?
I am not saying Ryun did or did not run 50 seconds for the last lap in the Dusseldorf race but the footage is inconclusive and so a precise conclusion cannot be made. Until we see complete, un-edited footage of that race, or even just the last lap, people will always question it and they're right to do so. Most people like facts to be just that, facts. You are spouting theories and portraying them as facts.
For anyone interesting in the current race being debated here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA5WWWLOMNEThe last 700m is incredibly fast!
Interesting how much more the top two drive with their arms while Willis and the Norwegian look handcuffed by comparison,
a high school kid could have won this race easily
Dictionary required... wrote:
Exactly. An anonymous poster claims to have a DVD and claims to have splits. We don't know whether they are right are wrong but they are just claims until we have definitive proof. Many people claim to have been abducted by aliens, do you believe them also?
It is not some random, anonymous poster. It is said88 who has posted here for years and has his own website
http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/I've personally contacted him and he gave me the details for buying the video myself. I haven't gone through with it yet because I'm short on $ at the moment, but I will in the future.
The only people questioning the splits are the ones who said it never happened in the first place. Now that said88 has verified it, they just continue to close their ears.
ventolin^3 wrote:
idiot
you peabrain not comprehend all that were available to uni guys in '70s were dirt tracks, but plenty of them in a big city
you were hardly out of diapers in '70s
don't talk about an era you have no sentient experience of
your drivel about kasheef v coe 400 was embarassing
Your spelling is embarrassing (not embarassing) too.
I'm 57 you old fool, so was old enough to know what was going on in the 70s thank you.
Have no idea what you're waffling on about re Kasheef Hassan. Don't recall ever mentioning him on here.
ventolin^3 wrote:
as for satellite, when the hell did you spend $500 in '80s in order to put up a dish in order to see worldwide sports ???
I love that Ventolin thinks this makes his opinion worth something.