well,. wrote:
Whatthewhat? wrote:He won the Olympics and WC five times. He does race Diamond league but maybe not that many races. He raced Kiprop in a 1500 and the world's best in a marathon. He has not made record attempts. All that means is that he is not on the level of Bekele. Noone argues that. It is absurd to say he ducked competition.
Could you please post a link to Noone´s argument?
Yeah. What the hell does the lead singer of Hermans Hermits know about running?
ORPJT wrote:
all-time greats at 1500-10000
Please provide a few examples of important 1500m races that Mo has won.
Kipketer_Pumpkin_Eater wrote:
The announcer said something along the lines, can he do it? Can Mo Farah become the "first British athlete to win the great north run since 198x...."
That's the point at which I had a "what the hell?" moment too. Playing devil's advocate though is it possible that once Kigen looked round and realised that Mo was on his shoulder and there was little chance of outkicking that he backed off?
As for the last 50m when the gap closed again maybe Kigen saw the clock which spurred him to accelerate to try to dip under 60. It certainly didn't look like he had any intention of trying to pass Mo though.
Very obvious what happened here. Doesn't even need to be discussed. The only question is what the arrangement was financially, but I would assume that this was a rewarding experience for Kigen.
Paula knew what was going on. Hear her comments at 17:35 of the video indicate that she sensed Kigen wasn't racing to win:
I just watched the finish. Farah took the lead at 2 minutes to go and held it pretty commandingly, so it did not look like Kigen could have caught him. My theory is that Kigen opted to pick it up right at the end so Farah wouldn't have time to react but he timed it late and wasn't able to pass in time.
Race was sponsored by BUPA, I should have said that Puma was one of the sponsors not the main sponsor (you could see Puma flags/banners for a good sections around the course.
But you are correct the main race sponsor was BUPA.
I was just addressing those who wished to label this a Nike conspiracy, the blame for this one must lie at the doors of Nova (company who run this and all the Great run events)
Kinda of funny watching them pose for a postrace photo:
http://i.imgur.com/cDSiW08.jpg
Maybe Kigen is smiling on the inside because of how much $$ he just made as a pacer?
Bring Back the 880 wrote:
ORPJT wrote:all-time greats at 1500-10000
Please provide a few examples of important 1500m races that Mo has won.
So he's criticised for not running fast enough times at 5km and 10km even though he has double at both major champs but suddenly at 1500m he is judged in a different way
Forget all this horsesh*t. The burning question on everyone's mind is, "How fast did he sprint the last 100m? Was it a sub 11?"
Sit and Kick does not calculate to sub 11 for 100m @ half-marathon. Maybe, just barely, sub 12.
mark b wrote:
Kigen's attitude immediately after the race suggested the man who felt he had done his job very well rather than an athlete devastated at having lost an important race!
Very much so.
A second-tier Kenyan goes head-to-head with the reigning double OG/WC champion, leads every step of the race only to get beaten by less than a second in the final quarter mile...and isn't bothered in the least? All smiles after getting sat on and losing that scalp?
Surrrrrrrrre.
UK Limey runner wrote:
Kipketer_Pumpkin_Eater wrote:The announcer said something along the lines, can he do it? Can Mo Farah become the "first British athlete to win the great north run since 198x...."
That's the point at which I had a "what the hell?" moment too. Playing devil's advocate though is it possible that once Kigen looked round and realised that Mo was on his shoulder and there was little chance of outkicking that he backed off?
As for the last 50m when the gap closed again maybe Kigen saw the clock which spurred him to accelerate to try to dip under 60. It certainly didn't look like he had any intention of trying to pass Mo though.
Who knows--likely there's honesty mixed in with a bit of excessive deference. Maybe he didn't want to lead and do all the work, and maybe from all the work he did, Kigen didn't have it at the end. Maybe a very loose relation to the situation in which Paul Tergat's WR marathon pacer was in contention at the end. I dunno.
Personally, I don't really mind. Real races obviously happen and he has put it on the line and will do so in the future.
I just worry that members of the general public or someone may come out with negative perceptions of the sport from this race.
This was a bit (loose comparison here) like my feelings about Meb's win in the Boston marathon. I had no personal qualm with those circumstances but fear the small possibility of something through the cracks, of the disruption of any hope of some section of the public appreciating the great endeavour and sport of distance running.
Sit & Kyck wrote:
Sit and Kick does not calculate to sub 11 for 100m @ half-marathon. Maybe, just barely, sub 12.
Um....sarcasm, 'k?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Bring Back the 880 wrote:Please provide a few examples of important 1500m races that Mo has won.
So he's criticised for not running fast enough times at 5km and 10km even though he has double at both major champs but suddenly at 1500m he is judged in a different way
No, I think he has proven his dominance in the long distance races. The popularity of the 'thon has helped him a bit, but his achievements in the 5,000 and 10,000 from 2011 through 2013 are enough for me. Unless it is going to be close to a WR, I don't think he needs to chase any PRs to prove his worth.
The fast 1500 in a losing effort from last year is a very overrated performance though. It shows that he has very good range, but I expect a 5,000 World and Olympic champion to be capable in the 1500.
Bring Back the 880 wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:So he's criticised for not running fast enough times at 5km and 10km even though he has double at both major champs but suddenly at 1500m he is judged in a different way
No, I think he has proven his dominance in the long distance races. The popularity of the 'thon has helped him a bit, but his achievements in the 5,000 and 10,000 from 2011 through 2013 are enough for me. Unless it is going to be close to a WR, I don't think he needs to chase any PRs to prove his worth.
The fast 1500 in a losing effort from last year is a very overrated performance though. It shows that he has very good range, but I expect a 5,000 World and Olympic champion to be capable in the 1500.
I agree. Everyone gets caught up in this WR stuff. If Mo doesn't think he can break the WR, why bother doing it? Only one person can be the fastest in HISTORY. Why slate a guy who has won so much. In that case, we can say Rupp is useless because he hasn't won any Olympic gold or World golds. It's just a stupid argument. Mo can only beat who is in the field with him. Look at Kiprotich for instance, World and Olympic Champ but doesn't run fast because he can't. That doesn't take away from his achievements.
Kipketer_Pumpkin_Eater wrote:
I just worry that members of the general public or someone may come out with negative perceptions of the sport from this race.
Agreed. I just watched it again from the Paula Radcliffe comment saying "it doesn't look like Kigen wants the win" or similar, and my opinion is now that he was pacing and not racing. Very disappointing if that's the case and I imagine many others will feel the same.
Kipketer_Pumpkin_Eater wrote:
I just worry that members of the general public or someone may come out with negative perceptions of the sport from this race.
This was a bit (loose comparison here) like my feelings about Meb's win in the Boston marathon. I had no personal qualm with those circumstances but fear the small possibility of something through the cracks, of the disruption of any hope of some section of the public appreciating the great endeavour and sport of distance running.
Why would anyone from the general public suspect anything afoul from Boston 2014?
kadoo wrote:
mo = mayweather.
boring to watch, outcome always the same, only competes when he knows he can win.
THIS. QOD right here.
Farah's not a real 1500 runner because he doesn't really compete at that distance, but 3:28 is more than capable -- it's faster than all but one 1500 specialist both last year and this year.
That Monaco race last year played to Farah's strength though. It would be interesting to see how he did in a tactical 1500.
Les wrote:
Farah's not a real 1500 runner because he doesn't really compete at that distance, but 3:28 is more than capable -- it's faster than all but one 1500 specialist both last year and this year.
That Monaco race last year played to Farah's strength though. It would be interesting to see how he did in a tactical 1500.
How often someone competes at an event doesn't affect whether or not that is their best event.
