The BYU phenomen--alternate theories

fdsfasdfasdf wrote:

I wonder why wrote:

Not really a fair comparison. The relevant comparison is a 24/25 yo senior at BYU versus a 22/23 yo senior at another school. At that point, there's still a difference, but a much smaller difference.

+1

I've always wondered if someone could explain the physiological advantage they think a 24/25 year old has over 22/23. Because there isn't any.

Not everyone physiologically matures at the same rate.

There are some 22/23 year olds that are still getting stronger/faster etc. Isn't the optimal physiological peak age for athletes something like 27 or 28?

I matured "late" and became a much faster runner at 25 than I was at 22 with few training modifications. Did not have to shave till 24.

Everyone is different. But the older you are (closer to 27) the more likely you will be faster/stronger, etc.

Everyone is different. Check out some of the kids in high school that are dominating their events and have full beards at 16.

I used to live in UT. Agree that the age advantage from spending 2 years on mission may be offset by the nature of being on the mission.

Also agree about cultural LDS pressure to get married and start a family. Seemed like an unofficial requirement at BYU is "Marriage 101".

I wonder why wrote:

Axcfersdery wrote:

90 degrees in Utah is comfortable. 90 degrees in North Carolina is brutal.

Just to be clear here, there aren't many summer days in Utah when the high temperature on the Wasatch Front stays at 90 or lower. The evenings and mornings do cool off some, probably more so than in the humid south. And 90 in Utah may be comfortable for walking around, but definitely not for running.

I was in Provo last week dropping my son off for college. 90 was very comfortable and in no way compares to the southern heat where I live.

If you live in Provo year round it might be tough but coming from the deep south it was a piece of cake.

You're right. You get used to the heat in Utah, even if it isn't pleasant to run in 90 or 100 degree desert weather. Your sweat evaporates quickly. You almost never end up with a soaked shirt and bloody nipples. Can't say the same thing about the humid south or east. Utah summer mornings are crisp and cool if you get up and out the door at 6:00-6:30 a.m. When I lived in South Florida, even 75 degrees didn't feel comfortable due to the humidity. One bad thing about the high desert heat is that you can actually run in it, though. When you get older you really notice sun-damaged skin from all those "comfortable" runs in the dry heat. At least in a hot and humid environment you simply WON'T run when the sun is high in the sky.

joedirt wrote:

Pretty much everyone is held to the same age standards. There should be no prejudice against missionaries, just as there should be no prejudice against someone who spends a couple years in the military before they start college. People start college at different ages, so it is appropriate for the age of the athletes in college sports to reflect the general demographic.

No they\'re not. The PC brainwashed tards who cry about \"over age\" Mormons say nothing about the droves of over age Africans. These same self haters will moan about over age runners from Europe at US Schools, but not a word against Africans lol. They aren\'t even smart enough to wonder who taught them to think this way.

I love Provo and would move their in a New York minute to escape the deep south's weather.

Patrick Shane is the women's coach and not Ed. From the potential walk ons I have talked to he tries to scare them all. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying it is.

While I agree the LDS lifestyle might be more conducive to optimal health than some alternate lifestyles, having two extra years of age is undoubtedly a huge advantage. Is it the only reason BYU is good? Of course not. Who would even think such a thing. Of course Eyestone is a good coach. Utah is also a great state (geographically) and a good place to train (though it does get cold in the winters). BYU is also a big school likely with good resources (not certain but I assume so).

Would the BYU runners be good if they were two years younger, lived somewhere else and weren't LDS? Probably. Would they be AS good? Probably not.

A lot of runners wash out after their mission, not being able to get back into shape. It takes a full year, normally, to get back where you were. A lot don't make it.

Wascallywobert wrote:

A lot of runners wash out after their mission, not being able to get back into shape. It takes a full year, normally, to get back where you were. A lot don't make it.

AT LEAST a full year. As you're trying to come back, now out of shape, it's so easy to be injured. Injured runners don't make the team, and those who don't make the team obviously don't get the scholarships. So how do you pay for school? Most people get a job. Meanwhile, you have new priorities in your life, and maybe you're in love with a young woman whose priorities don't include your running obsession, but rather getting married and raising a family. As I said, it is truly admirable when returned missionaries like Marsh, Eyestone and Padilla put it all together. Most very good returned Mormon missionaries never do.

The real reason they have been so good historically has little to do with the mission (although I think that helps). The real reason is that BYU has an incredibly high chance of landing any Mormon runner. Take the top Mormon high school runners in the nation, and you'll have a great team.

Now, the same could be said for the top Catholic runners, or the top Baptist runners etc. The difference is, there isn't a singular D1 school run by those churches which most of their members want to attend. I would be willing to bet that Notre Dames roster isn't overwhelmingly Catholic from year to year. After all, if you want a Catholic education, you have plenty of other options (and some of those Catholic schools have great programs, like Portland).

This is the reason BYU is good at most sports, not just cross country. However, it also defines their performance ceiling, as many non-Mormon top recruits aren't gong to be interested in attending a strict Mormon institution.

Very good point.

We have a winner! this is the correct answer, they have a monopoly on the best mormon runners. of course you don't get to that point by not having a good program either

Shawn H wrote:AT LEAST a full year. As you're trying to come back, now out of shape, it's so easy to be injured. Injured runners don't make the team, and those who don't make the team obviously don't get the scholarships. So how do you pay for school? Most people get a job. Meanwhile, you have new priorities in your life, and maybe you're in love with a young woman whose priorities don't include your running obsession, but rather getting married and raising a family. As I said, it is truly admirable when returned missionaries like Marsh, Eyestone and Padilla put it all together. Most very good returned Mormon missionaries never do.

That performance ceiling could change for the better if their Church leadership would lighten up and eliminate some of the silly policies at BYU.

Non-Mormon students can't drink coffee.

A 40 year old non-Mormon linebackers coach can't down a cold beer after cutting the grass on a hot summer day.

Non-Mormons have to deal with the campus missionaries.

All students have to study their church year after year (and those classes aren't easy).

Instead of watching their football and basketball teams slide deeper down the toilet, they could fix the more cult-like policies and bring some true racial and religious diversity to that campus.

Why impose your morals on someone else? You sound like a typical liberal. Liberals are the most close minded group of people in our soviety.

Wascallywobert wrote:

Patrick Shane is the women's coach and not Ed. From the potential walk ons I have talked to he tries to scare them all. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying it is.

“Scare them” with the “threat” of hard work? Commitment? Sacrifice? Discipline? Sounds brutally unfair!

I think one reason they have a monopoly is that the other two large in-state schools that could complete don't.

University of Utah doesn't have a men's team. If they were to invest in that and get a good coach I would bet that they could get some of the good Utah runners.

Utah State has a team but overall it's not well supported. Sure, they had Dillon Maggard, but he was really a diamond in the rough. I think that USU has good coaches who are doing a respectable job, considering they don't get many resources and the men's team is severely limited because of Title IX. I wouldn't be surprised if USU cuts men's cross country in the next ten years.

If either of these schools invested in running like BYU does, I think that BYU would not get the depth they have.

Billy Dixon wrote:

Mormon is not a race.

It's not?

Yes, and BYU doesn't need to worry about enticing Morman runners with athletic scholarships since tuition is very affordable for them.