Another bad analogy from Letsrun, Is Coburn's steeplechase AR soft?

Apples and Oranges · 2014-07-15T09:27:11-04:00

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/07/emma-coburns-record-soft-jagers-american-mile1500-prs-will-leer-molly-huddle-jordan-hasay-kyle-merber-alleged-scoop-jon-drummond-via-tyson-gay-leaks/ Comparing Jager's AR to Lagat's flat 3000 isn't the same comparing Coburn's AR to Rowbury's 3000. The women's event is much less demanding since barriers are 6" lower. There is no hurdling in the women's event, they barely step over them.

Pro News/Info/Results

Reply New New Thread

Moderation Moderation Information Moderation Information & Rules

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

Next Last

11 years ago 07/15/2014 8:42pm EDT

re: George Atlas

George Atlas wrote:
The woman's steeple has only been contested for about 10 years. In 1972 Sid Sink had the American record in 8:26 when the AR for the flat 3000 was 7:45. 41 seconds slower.
The steeplechase in 1972 had been an event for men for 50 years and was 41 seconds slower than the AR for the flat 3000. Today at 8:06 it is 36 seconds slower than Bob Kennedy and Sydney Maree's 7:30. I'm not including the Kenyan Olympic silver medalist.
Coburn's 9:11.4 is 46 seconds slower than the AR for the flat 3000.
Yes its still a soft record however its also only 13 seconds from the world record.
Close to the same differential the American men were at in the event in 1972.
You have to look at it with that perspective.

Right. Thus, the women's event is progressing much more rapidly, which is nice.

11 years ago 07/15/2014 8:45pm EDT

re: malmo

malmo wrote:
M 110 h 42"
W 100 h 33"

Women's steeple hurdles should be 9" less than the men's!

/thread

Okay, I'm kidding. They are fine as they are.

11 years ago 07/15/2014 9:16pm EDT

re: malmo

When is the last time JBS ran hurdles? She would smash Emma if still running them.

malmo wrote:
get used to it. wrote:
The women are shorter and don't have as much power so it is appropriate for their hurdles to be lower. That said, the record is soft because the best middle distance runners don't run steeple.
SKATE wrote:
Brian Diemer 5'9", Henry Marsh 5'10". Kipruto (7:53.64) The barrier heights should be the same. Zaripova 5'9" Galkina- 5'8" Coburn 5'8". Oly Silver medalist-Habiba Ghribi 5' 9"
Women are shorter? How much shorter are they than the men? Six inches? If a woman is six inches shorter than a man does than mean that her hips are six inches lower... or about three inches lower? Because it's the hips that determine the need for elevation, not the head. The reality is the women and men steeplechasers have probably have less than and inch an a half difference in hip height, and you can see it in the way they hurdle. The women don't have to hurdle at all, they just step over the barriers. Colburn is a stiff lead legger, a no-no in Hurdling 101. The first thing you learn in hurdling is to "lead with the knee", not the foot. Colburn can get away with stiff-legging because there is no reason for her not to, the barriers are so low.
The best middle distance runners don't run the steeplechase? You mean like Jenny Barrenger?
Cultural wars wrote:
Don't think the OP thought that one through yet. Give him some time.
I think you haven't thought this one through yet. I'll give you some time.

11 years ago 07/15/2014 11:50pm EDT

re: get used to it.

get used to it. wrote:
When is the last time JBS ran hurdles? She would smash Emma if still running them.

I'm pretty sure she was 5th the last time she ran the steeple, and that was her only time under 9:20.

11 years ago 07/16/2014 3:59pm EDT

re: Apples and Oranges

Great work by letsrun to compare these records (which is always a hard thing to do across genders).

The only glaring mistake in my mind is the data seemed to try to equate an 8:30 3k for women (Slaney) with a 7:29 for men (Lagat). Those are not equal marks at all. The fairest comparison would be to the 3000 WR or 3000 SC record.

Based off the 3k data I get

Roughly 10.4% off pace for the men

Roughly 11.1% off pace for the women.

So while the men's AR is probably a stronger mark, they are similar. I think it is going to take a really talented runner whose also a great all around athlete (for the hurdles and pit) to break either time.

11 years ago 01/15/2015 11:58pm EST

re: 14:43 guy

14:43 guy wrote:
The whole issue of different heights/barriers/leg lengths is STUPID.
For many years we have had the 100m HH for women and the 110m HH for men, and the 400m IH for both, all set at whatever heights they sit at (don't know, don't care).
Now we have a men's 3000m SC, same for women. And the barriers are at different heights.
LIVE WITH IT! You are sound like a bunch of frigging fifth-graders arguing over whether Batman could beat up Spiderman.

Except that there have been people arguing for YEARS (nearly two decades) that we need to raise the heights of the hurdles in Women's 100 and 400m hurdles. And the biggest barrier to that seems to be the history now. And the fact that many of the people in charge have records on those old hurdle heights

http://hurdlesfirstbeta.com/free-articles/issues/raise-em/

Fact is all the women's hurdle heights are proportionally easier than the mens hurdle heights.

11 years ago 01/16/2015 7:21am EST

re: Double standardzzzz.

Double standardzzzz. wrote:
This. Should we shorten the track for these women, too?
Captain Oblivious wrote:
There are short and tall men and women doing the steeple. The barriers should be the same height.

This. Making the barriers different heights makes a complete and utter mockery of women's track and field. As you say - why not have shorter tracks for women as well? It is like saying women tennis players should play with lower net heights.

ALL hurdling events should have the exact same barrier heights AND distance ran. Otherwise you may as well have different height classes for the hurdling events with different hurdle heights for each height class ... and do the same for basketball.

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

Next Last

What People Are Talking About On LetsRun

No top threads at the moment. Check back soon.

Reply Replying to

Username

Password

Leave the password field blank to post anonymously.

Post Preview

By posting you acknowledge that you have read and abide by our Terms and Conditions.

Remember me on this device.

Another bad analogy from Letsrun, Is Coburn's steeplechase AR soft?

This thread has already been deleted.

You have been subscribed.