Northport High School: 8:53, 8:54, 9:01 in the Same Race! @ Loucks

Still don't see how I shoulda realized you just thought 4 sub 10:20 returners was a big deal in the South, but that does sound more reasonable.

#10, 13, and 36 in the nation. I'll admit, that's impressive ;)

Being the stats guru, do you know if anyone has had their top 5 in the top 100 in the nation?

damn is right wrote:

Still don't see how I shoulda realized you just thought 4 sub 10:20 returners was a big deal in the South, but that does sound more reasonable.

#10, 13, and 36 in the nation. I'll admit, that's impressive ;)

Being the stats guru, do you know if anyone has had their top 5 in the top 100 in the nation?

Three reasons -

1. I not only do national rankings, but regional rankings. Regional rankings need to go deeper, and some regions are weaker than others, meaning the standards have to be lower in some regions than are necessary in others.

2. That thread is more for tracking progress and announcing standards for teams looking to make regional rankings than it is national rankings - it's a lot easier to find the top 50/100/150 teams in the nation than it is to find the top 10/15/20 teams in regions without a lot of depth.

3. Like I said in that quote, with the stricter standards I've used in years past I've only gotten about 20-30 teams in the South, and as I am looking for any team that could be ranked (regionally or nationally), I need to go quite a bit deeper than that (e.g., to get the top 20 teams - and if I include bubble teams along with only a regional top 5, I'm still looking at ranking ~15 teams every other week, and there are probably about 20-25 deserving teams that can hit that threshold throughout the year, so you generally need to find more than 30-50 qualified teams to serve as your pool of candidates)

I doubt anyone has had five guys in the top 100 in the nation at the end of the year, unless it was in a really weak year. In the early days of DyeStat (late 90's/early 00's before the boom took hold), Top 100 would be around 9:15-9:20. Since the boom, it's more like 9:10ish. I don't know many teams that have had 5 guys under 9:10, and I'm sure there have been VERY few with 5 at 9:20 or better.

If any teams had 5 guys in the top 100, it probably happened in the 90's, when there were only pockets around the nation that were still pretty tough (Spokane/Mead during the early/mid 90's, Chicago/York at the turn on the millenium, etc.) and Top-100 was probably more like 9:20-9:25.

False !! More like 45 MPW.

dsrunner wrote:

The real trend in HS 3000m/3200m/2mi is as follows:

1964/ 1969 8:40 Lindgren (open competition) / 8:41 Prefontaine (solo)

1974/1979 8:40 Virgin (solo) -> 8:36 Nelson (open competition)

1980's 8:05 Trautman (regional HS meet)

1990's Webb runs 3:53 but does not race 3000m (his performance equates to 7:45 3000m probably sub 8 capable in HS only race)

2000's Ritz 2000 13:44 does not attempt 2mi record Rupp 8:03 (open competition) / Fernandez 7:59

2010 Verbicas, Cheserek 8:30 2mi (national level competition)

No high mega mileage runners on the list in 30 years

What is "high mega mileage"? Ritz ran 80 to 90 per week. That's not Lindgren high, but still pretty high for high school.

damn is right wrote:

Jerkstore, M.D. wrote:

No they don't. The team that had 2 athletes peform at a much higher level looks more impressive here. That team is Northport.

I understand what you are saying. From a coaching perspective, I see La Salle Academy as being more impressive because they are younger and don't have the advantage of twins. Talented twins help programs look better. There are a disproportionate amount of twins on XC teams ranked in the top 100.

Even if you take out the 9:01, having an 8:53 and 8:54 runner is incredible, obviously. La Salle looks like they could have 3 under 9:00 next year who are not related to one another.

Look better?? I don't understand twins don't count as two runners. This statement is beyond stupid.

Certainly to be sure each individual does count--but this underscores the importance of genetics as opposed to just environment, e.g. coaching, lifestyle, and training regime, on racing performance.

Swagger doesn't disappear

I do believe that these Lasalle kids do quite high mileage, but I think David Principe jr, will be atleast in the 8:40'S senior year, if not under and getting a national record, mainly because of his great build, and how he looks a bit under matured for a frosh.

I was told the LSA kids hit 45-55 mpw. That is not high mileage.

Northport follows up an incredible season with a SUPERB 4 X 1 mile at Brooks PR. Missing the National record by .3 seconds set back in the '70's by South Eugene.

Byrneout wrote:

I was told the LSA kids hit 45-55 mpw. That is not high mileage.

Correct, they are moderate on the mileage, but very high on the intensity and racing. Most show little to no improvement after HS. It is a win at all costs in HS program.

kev1 wrote:

Certainly to be sure each individual does count--but this underscores the importance of genetics as opposed to just environment, e.g. coaching, lifestyle, and training regime, on racing performance.

I think you might be discounting the non-genetic advantage that twins have: a constant training partner.

Can you imagine having a training partner with you at every workout, every easy run, every meal, every easy day? That is a huge advantage for a high school kid and has nothing to do with genetics.

New England HS Championships

2nd place Jack Salisbury SO La Salle 4:12.97

5th Paiva,Dan JR La Salle 4:18.96

3200m

4th Bouthilette, Matt SO La Salle 9:25.97

14th Grundy, Jake SO La Salle 9:42.99

16th Principe JR, David FR La Salle 9:46.17

Not to knock Northpoint's success because to have three runners that fast is really unique. But that is not three under 9 in the 2 mile. First thing is that one guy ran 9:01; second thing is that it was 3200 so you have to add maybe about 2.8 seconds or thereabout to equal 2 miles. Rudy Chapa's Hammond, Ind. team is the only HS team to ever have three under 9 in the 2 mile.

Bob Penny wrote:

Not to knock Northpoint's success because to have three runners that fast is really unique. But that is not three under 9 in the 2 mile. First thing is that one guy ran 9:01; second thing is that it was 3200 so you have to add maybe about 2.8 seconds or thereabout to equal 2 miles. Rudy Chapa's Hammond, Ind. team is the only HS team to ever have three under 9 in the 2 mile.

Both the race that started this thread and New Balance Nationals were actually a full 2 miles. So they have equalled Hammond, and done it in the same race.

Still shake'in my head over this (these) feats. We need to celebrate accomplishments like this instead of looking to some random date in the future and wonder how much faster they can run. Please, let's revel in the times Cain, Effraimson, Cranny, the Northport boys….etc are running right now and screw obsessing over how much faster they can go. What a time to be a fan of T & F !!

Chapa, Keough and Pinkowski 8:51.0, 8:52.8 and 8:56.2 = 26:40

Not wanting to detract from the Northport accomplishment, the Hammond marks still total a faster overall composite.