OC Marathon winner DQ'd - Stephen Shay WINS

Thanks for the complete rules references Karl. I agree with some of your points but disagree with your conclusion. We have seen many times that the more fit runners does not win a particular race. Stephan and Fadil are well matched runners, I suspect if we were to look back in 10 years and they race each other multiple times they will each win their fair share. Re: your other points...

a) It would certainly been smart for the race to have multiple lead vehicles. I produce a number of races, for the large one (the only one with prize money) we have a lead police motorcycle at the front of the race (actually 2, one for the lead wheelchairs and one for the lead runners) as well as a bicycle escort for our lead runners and our lead women. We also have a few "front pack" cyclists in case the leaders get so far ahead that 2nd place or 2nd pack is no longer in sight of the lead cyclist. For our smaller races we only have 1 lead cyclist. The OC is big enough to have multiple.

b) We don't know that a race official did not issue a verbal warning. If we had continuous video of the leaders we would know, but we don't. The USATF rules seem to be more geared toward track races. Rule 144 addresses the situation, but I'd say rule 241 is more appropriate.

c) We don't know that the RD didn't hear evidence from both sides. I may have missed something here, but I haven't seen that Fadil wasn't allowed to state his case.

d) The OC has 21 water stations and 11 have Gatorade. While fluid tables for elites would be nice, I'd say the race provides plenty of fluids for their racers.

e) The course map shows the race as 26.2 miles long. Where are you seeing 26.6?

f) Any potential prize money is irrelevant to any official's decision. You assess the potential infraction without considering what it may cost an athlete.

g) As a mid-level marathon, the race can get a lot more publicity for a thousand different things than who the winner is. (Unless somebody like Meb showed up.) Doesn't matter if Fadil or Stephan Shay won. I say that as somebody who works for another mid-size marathon. We love the men and women who come to our race and win, but reality is that we get a lot more publicity for the special interest stories around the race.

h) Couldn't agree more with you on H...and a lot of us could say the same thing.

As for the DQ, to me I don't see where any other action could have been issued. There is clear evidence of pacing and passing up fluids. Did it help, who knows? Did it happen, certainly. There isn't an option to issue a 5 minute penalty. The head judge could choose to ignore the infraction or could act on it. Once acted on, I don't see any options.

It's a tough situation to be in. I was in this situation on a jury a few years ago at a college ski race. We were informed of a potential rules infraction (skating in a classic race) and when we went into the race headquarters they actually had video of the infraction. The jury was asked to judge if we felt it was an infraction without considering what the potential penalty might be. The jury felt it was a pretty clear infraction and called it that way. The penalty was that the athlete was DQ'd from the NCAA results, which is the only remedy that the NCAA rule book allows once you determine it's a technical violation. It went against a kid who was in contention to qualify for NCAA's. Brutal. That race was also being held as an open race (it was college scoring broken out among a larger race), and the open race was held under FIS rules, which allowed the FIS referee to simply issue a verbal or written warning, which he did, which meant the kid's FIS result stood up. As an official you hate having to make these calls, but you can only act with the evidence you have in front of you. Nobody, and although I don't know them I will lump the OC officials in here, wants to DQ an athlete.

It's a matter of someone reporting it, possibly with evidence. Even if the drink was given by another legitimate, registered runner, it's ground for a DQ for being considered "Assistance". Here's USATFs rules, which aren't pertinent to Berlin (IAAF rules):

Wasn't this Shay's 3rd marathon since December? Think he did the Cal International in December, then LA and then OC? One of the LA Marathon threads mentioned someone took his water bottles from the pro tables, so guessing he'd had enough of people's shady antics.

d2xccoach wrote:

We have seen many times that the more fit runners does not win a particular race.

DQ both of them, one for being a bonehead the other for being a whiner! Run faster, quit complaining people!