Alexa MF Efraimson 9:00!!!!

Critical Thinking wrote:

Dude, Cain just ran a 4:24 mile indoors. She would have absolutely cleaned up the course with those three.

Cain ran 4:28 indoors last year and got dusted by Baxter. So exactly where is the cutoff for the indoor mile time that would make the difference between those two in your opinion?

Can we all please remember that these girls are both in HS. Would you really want someone talking about your daughter this way. All 4 (Efraimson, Cain, Cranny, and Baxter)of the girls referenced are amazing young ladies. US distance running is in goods hands right now. Let's build them all up and see what happens. My money is on Alexa and Cain.

US women's distance running does seem to be in good hands. Efraimson ran a wonderful race. But comparing her to Cain, as so many are wont to do, is a fool's errand. Efraimson's coach is doing a terrific job, not only in her training, but in selecting a few races in which she can race against really challenging competition. But Cain came in second in outdoor Nationals last year (and won indoors), and made the World Final. This is a far cry from coming in fourth in a meet at UW. And as for the comparisons--"Oh, if they raced at 3,122 meters, Cain would lose . . . ." blah, blah, blah. If Efraimson and Cain raced 10 miles against Sarah Baxter, they'd probably lose. If all of them ran a marathon against Alana Hadley, they'd certainly lose. But it is truly senseless to think of such counterfactuals. Can Efraimson, Cranny, Baxter achieve, in the best event for each, what Cain has achieved? Not yet. Not by a long shot. But it would certainly be great for women's track and field in this country if they could. And as for those envious souls who seem desperately to desire to see Cain fail, please oh please get a real life.

StopAlexa wrote:

Can we all please remember that these girls are both in HS. Would you really want someone talking about your daughter this way. All 4 (Efraimson, Cain, Cranny, and Baxter)of the girls referenced are amazing young ladies. US distance running is in goods hands right now. Let's build them all up and see what happens. My money is on Alexa and Cain.

˄˄˄This!!!˄˄˄ couldn't have said it better

seriouserer wrote:

Critical Thinking wrote:

Dude, Cain just ran a 4:24 mile indoors. She would have absolutely cleaned up the course with those three.

Cain ran 4:28 indoors last year and got dusted by Baxter. So exactly where is the cutoff for the indoor mile time that would make the difference between those two in your opinion?

Yeah, she had a major breakthrough after she lost that race. That's like saying, "Oh, well Daniel Komen lost to Shem Kororia at the Kenyan trials, so it doesn't matter that Komen ran 7:20 later that year." Mary Cain is in a league of her own.

It is not 'truly senseless' to think of who would win or lose at different events between these runners. That is the whole point of the sport - For some to win and some to lose. So it makes total sense that fans would want to debate on who would win and who is better. It's not senseless at all.

And it's not "a UW" meet. Don't try to belittle one of the most competitive race venues in the country. The UW meets are usually more competitive than the indoor title Cain win last year. That is what is truly senseless. Cain won a race that was slower than 5:00. The world final was clearly a greater achievement than any of the others have achieved so far so stick to that meet.

But you are missing the point of this thread. Efraimson is ahead or equal to where Cain was at the same age. It's very possible that she could reach WC final ability by August just like Cain did.

Critical Thinking wrote:

seriouserer wrote:

Cain ran 4:28 indoors last year and got dusted by Baxter. So exactly where is the cutoff for the indoor mile time that would make the difference between those two in your opinion?

Yeah, she had a major breakthrough after she lost that race. That's like saying, "Oh, well Daniel Komen lost to Shem Kororia at the Kenyan trials, so it doesn't matter that Komen ran 7:20 later that year." Mary Cain is in a league of her own.

Your key line "after she lost that race", Mary's run some impressive times being paced by the best in world, but head to head results always mean more and the fact is Cain could have run NXN but didnt, -- cant live off well paced PR's forever. Look at Efraimson's 9:00, great pacers, great time, yet finishing 4th. 

To say Cain is in a "league of her own" is rather silly considering Efrainson's just bested one of her records and recently won the NXN beating Baxter, a race and opponent that alluded Cain, after multiple attempts.

Look Cain is impressive but so are these other girls. I just wish Mary would have allowed the head to head race at NXN.Is Cain better - probably - a league of her own, hardly. If she was "in a league of her own" she could win NXN while not altering her track training schedule, and could take out these other girls without concern to time, place, or which mid/long distance covered.

Real critical thinking wrote:

Mary's run some impressive times being paced by the best in world, but head to head results always mean more and the fact is Cain could have run NXN but didnt, -- cant live off well paced PR's forever. Look at Efraimson's 9:00, great pacers, great time, yet finishing 4th. 

.

Mary Cain won a national championship and was second in another.

So, now that Alexa has competed in another collegiate meet, is she going to yet again appeal to be re-instated for her state's high school eligibility?

Alexa ran an amazing 3k. Slightly faster than Cain's 3k last year, but not as good as Cain's two mile. At this point she is still slightly slower than Cain at the 3k/2 mile distance for indoors Junior year. Now we'll have to see Alexa for the rest of the season to see what she'll do. Right now she's got a 3k that is basically on Cain's last year level. But no way she is gonna be on Cain's level from last year in the 800, and will probably be a good bit slower in the Mile as well, but Alexa is more of a distance runner than Cain, so maybe she could put out a 15:40 5k, I dunno, just saying we gotta wait to see what she does in multiple events to see if she is Cain #2 or extraordinary but not on Cain's level. I highly doubt she is overall as good as Cain was last year since Cain has way more speed.

Yes, it may be possible for Efraimson to be at the same level this spring and summer that Cain was last year--and I think if she does this, it would be great. However, here's the thing: Cain made a World final and came in second at ourdoor Nationals, beating people like Shannon Rowbury. That's not a matter of possibility, that's a matter of actuality--simply amazing for a high school junior. And I wasn't belittling the UW meet: I simply said it's a far cry from running in the World Final. Do you disagree with that? And as for comparing things, Cain is a 800/1500 runner. She will be that for the next five to ten years. I might compare her in the 10,000 to Hasay, to whom she would lose badly, I assume. But even if that were true, it would not say anything about Hasay. Similarly about Efraimson. She ran a great 3000, especially for a high school junior. How does it elevate that achievement by wondering, against any possibility, how she would do or would have done against Cain?

Looking down the road, the prospect that we could send two teenagers to Rio '12 with medal prospects is pretty astonishing. It's like Ryun/Liquori redux.

Not saying it'll happen, but a very cool scenario.

StopAlexa wrote:

Can we all please remember that these girls are both in HS. Would you really want someone talking about your daughter this way. All 4 (Efraimson, Cain, Cranny, and Baxter)of the girls referenced are amazing young ladies. US distance running is in goods hands right now. Let's build them all up and see what happens. My money is on Alexa and Cain.

I've been saying this for years. The infatuation with the high school girls on this site is truly disturbing. Not long ago there was a discussion on how their hips and rear ends hint toward what kind of future they will have as a runner. Yuk.

Personally the men on this site are creepy and borderline stockers.

Dateline wrote:

Personally the men on this site are creepy and borderline stockers.

Maybe they haven't put everything on the shelves.

sillyboys wrote:

Mercier 9:43

They are more legit than iaaf tables.

if you don't know what mercer scoring is and how it relates to iaaf tables you shouldn't be in this argument

If you think converting a 3000m time to a 2 mile time means anything in the context of being a serious track nerd (which is most definitely true, since you're arguing over conversion tables) then you don't belong in this argument either.

the twinkster wrote:

She is also has a professional coach, and trains full time like a professional. While Efraimson is an actual high school athlete. You would think that Cain would actually race fellow high schoolers at some point.

This is pretty funny, it actually sounds like you're faulting Cain for being a world-class athlete and forgoing racing her peers for racing other professionals. The onus is NOT on Cain to race other high schoolers, if they want her they can come get her. Until then she is by far the most accomplished among them.

Remember a few months ago when she held every HS record from 800m-5k, won USA indoors and was a WC finalist?

She beat an out of form Shannon Rowbury. She would never beat an in shape Rowbury.

Why does the achievement need to be elevated? That's not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that Efraimson ran 9:00 and might now be on the same path as Cain. Nowhere in the title of this thread does it say "come here so we can elevate Efraimson's achievement". It's ok to just have a discussion. Why do we need to elevate anything?

It's perfectly fine to talk about how they all would have done at NXN because Cain competed in highschool xc and at NXN. So it's not at all like comparing her to Hasay in a 10000. HS xc is an event and SEASON that Cain did for years. So you're absolutely wrong about this. It's no less valid than talking about how she would do against anyone else in the 800/1500.

In fact, Cain is not just an 800/1500m runner. She has competed in the 3k, 2 mile, and 5k also. Not only competed, but went after RECORDS. So you're wrong about that also. So it's perfectly sensical to talk about how these girls would do against each other in events that they all regularly compete in (middle distance).

And yes I disagree with your comment. You are now changing your story. You didn't say it was a far cry from the world final. You said it was a far cry from US indoor nats last year, outdoor champs, and the world final. Don't be dishonest.

So what is the mascot at U of NA? Is this a D1 school?

think man wrote:

She would never beat an in shape Rowbury.

By the end of this outdoor season, Cain's PR will probably be pretty damn close to Rowbury's 4:00, possibly faster. I agree that Rowbury is excellent, but let's not get carried away here. "Never" is quite the exaggeration.

Actually you're so wrong it's humorous. Any legit track fan knows how to correctly convert. There is only one way to do it, you've been living under a bridge. Don't pretend you're a track geek or even fan if you don't know how to convert 1500/3k's. That is like track 101, get yourself schooled F'tard.