How do you find a balance between eating for performance and eating like a human being?

Eat when you're hungry. Eat until you are full. Stop obsessing about food. Seek therapy for your illness.

Dennis Reynolds 2.0 wrote:

If you're not getting paid to run or winning prize money you are an idiot if you focus on your diet that much.

La Junta, CO turd in lane 6 wrote:

No - You're the idiot

No, he's not.

If you are legitimately training as a distance runner and simply eat to satiety while generally sticking to non-processed foods, you will be just fine.

Stock your house with good stuff. You don't need a book or journal articles to know what good stuff is. You know this. Cook this good stuff, and put some away for when you're feeling too tired or rushed to prepare a meal. Eat when and what you want to at home, and make smart decisions when you're out (if you care to, which isn't necessary).

The amount of tinkering/thinking/worrying people do regarding what are at most trivialities of diet is far out of proportion to impact on performance, and if anything they would be better off mentally if they established a few basic guidelines and actually stuck to them consistently.

oheo wrote:

It's fine to plan out your meals (what you'll be eating)- that's just being efficient, especially while at the grocery store.

I think the best strategy is to eat when you're hungry and eat until you're satisfied. If you're hungry an hour later, you should have a variety of snacks on hand and be ready to eat whatever interests you.

You can have 2 time scheduled meals, those would be the before-run snack, and the post-run recovery snack.

If you didn't eat enough dinner and you're really craving dessert, eat a "restaurant portion" of your chosen dessert.

I eat mini desserts after lunch and a real dessert, or more dinner, after dinner.

Summary: Eat when you're hungry.

All good advice, except for the daily desserts after two meals a day, which depending on the dessert seems ridiculous.

Meet day= cheat day

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

oheo wrote:

It's fine to plan out your meals (what you'll be eating)- that's just being efficient, especially while at the grocery store.

I think the best strategy is to eat when you're hungry and eat until you're satisfied. If you're hungry an hour later, you should have a variety of snacks on hand and be ready to eat whatever interests you.

You can have 2 time scheduled meals, those would be the before-run snack, and the post-run recovery snack.

If you didn't eat enough dinner and you're really craving dessert, eat a "restaurant portion" of your chosen dessert.

I eat mini desserts after lunch and a real dessert, or more dinner, after dinner.

Summary: Eat when you're hungry.

All good advice, except for the daily desserts after two meals a day, which depending on the dessert seems ridiculous.

Probably doesn't mean a piece of cake for each. Something like a few chocolates or even sweetened yogurt or pudding is just enough to satisfy the craving so you don't end up binging later.

Side note: I used to be pretty obsessive. Have extreme absolutes tends to lead to extreme breaks in the diet (binging etc) for some. Practicing flexibility and general guidelines with built in wiggle room is much more practical

Diet isn't as important as runners think, and the diet runners think is good often isn't (read: "vegans" who use strict diets to hide raging eating disorders). Do you realize that Kenyan runners get 20% of their daily calories from sugar? Straight sugar in tea. Most of the rest comes from cornmeal.

http://runnersconnect.net/running-nutrition-articles/diet-of-kenyan-runners/

You need, basically, enough fuel (primarily carbohydrate with some fat), adequate protein, and adequate micronutrients. Provided you don't have any health issues, you can get that fuel wherever you want, preferably from a whole food like potatoes, but rice, nixtamalized corn meal, and pasta all work. Eat a variety of vegetables, fruits, and nuts to get the micronutrients. If you're still hungry after meals, add some more protein. Simple.

xenonscreams wrote:

Not really sure what the point of that would be. I dig my heme iron and calcium.

You know not to take iron and calcium at the same time, do you? Calcium inhibits iron absorption. Take them separately at different times.

This thread proves why distance runners are unbearable, tedious and obsessive misfits. Shut up and stuff a brownie in it already!

Here's something that's used in ED treatment, where rigid eating patterns and meal rituals are a serious problem:

If you can find someone you trust to do it, give up control and have someone else plan some meals and snacks for you. That would include what, when (within reason), and how much. It's OK to make a *short* list of fear foods, and of course foods that you're allergic to, but other than that, eat anything and everything you're given. It's best if the person planning the meal or snack is present to eat with you, but if that's not possible, don't look until the last possible minute.

In one sentence you state that you have foods that you WILL NOT eat. Then at the end of the paragraph you state that you will go out on a weekend and eat a pizza (with much of what you just said definitively will not eat in it).

First it doesn't make sense. And secondly this it what happens when you make declarations like this.

I have a friend who claims they are a vegetarian, except they eat fish. And tons of junk food. That is why moderation is better. And don't try and pretend you don't eat sugar, white flour, or processed foods.

Also, you don't need to eat everything healthy. Just eat well (meat, veggies, fat, grain, fruit, etc) the main meals of the day you'll have all the necessary nutrients covered. Then when you're hungry or craving for some certain food you can have whatever you feel like.

I have stashed a good selection of chips, cookies, crackers, all my favorites. At the mileage I'm running, I don't worry I would gain weight for eating too much. A lot of times I eat not because I'm hungry but because I feel I may not have eaten enough for the energy I spent or will spend in my runs. Then again, I'm not an elite runner and am unwilling to lose a few pounds just so that I may run slightly faster.

xenonscreams wrote:I'm trying to find a balance now, but I'm not sure what's typical and how to go about it. How much should I let myself indulge?

I think you are suffering from OCD not an eating disorder/problem.Focusing on what and when you eat is making the problem worse,its making the obsession grow. You need to tackle the anxiety not your diet. You should get to the stage where it shouldn't be anxiety provoking if you eat something unhealthy.

I doubt Bekele. Dibaba ,solinsky or webb get stressed like this over food. Your anxiety has latched on to food to justify its existence.

Try ERP Therapy.

I think you are suffering from OCD not an eating disorder/problem.Focusing on what and when you eat is making the problem worse,its making the obsession grow. You need to tackle the anxiety not your diet. You should get to the stage where it shouldn't be anxiety provoking if you eat something unhealthy.

I doubt Bekele. Dibaba ,solinsky or webb get stressed like this over food. Your anxiety has latched on to food to justify its existence.

Try ERP Therapy.

candyyum wrote:

Probably doesn't mean a piece of cake for each. Something like a few chocolates or even sweetened yogurt or pudding is just enough to satisfy the craving so you don't end up binging later.

"Satisfy the craving"?

I am actually a bit worried for anyone who talks about food this way. It sounds like you have things together, though.

candyyum wrote:

Side note: I used to be pretty obsessive. Have extreme absolutes tends to lead to extreme breaks in the diet (binging etc) for some. Practicing flexibility and general guidelines with built in wiggle room is much more practical

COMPLETELY agree. That was what my first post was all about. People are more likely to massively fall off of some elaborate detailed plan, feel guilty, binge, cycle, etc.

Staying within a SMALL number of REASONABLE rules is all the thought most anyone should be spending on diet.

xenon are you lactose intolerant? You seem to have a thing with bowel movements. I saw where you posted about having to take a huge dump during your AP exam.

Xenon-

You're getting some awful advice about sticking to a schedule, but I'm glad you came to this thread with the idea that a scheduled diet was something to work away from. Keep in mind that since running seems to attract obsessive types, any question here is going to get answered by at least a few people who are way more obsessive than you'll ever be. These people, in their own obsession, tend to project an even HIGHER level obsession on elite athletes. Keep in mind that Galen Rupp-the poster child for the obsessive, detail-oriented, no-stone-unturned athlete-had Taco Bell after a late-night race because it was the only place still open and he needed to eat.

Don't eat with rules- eat with guidelines. Guidelines are good suggestions to follow; rules are either obeyed or violated. Diet isn't something so important as to be governed by dictum.

Before anyone jumps on me about how important diet is, I don't say diet was UNimportant. It just isn't so crucial as to necessitate harsh, complicated rules. It should follow common guidelines- eat vegetables (try new ones- maybe you don't like onions and romaine lettuce, but enjoy kale and red peppers or parsnips or beets). Don't stuff yourself. Don't eat a ton of processed crap (a good guideline is to minimize food that comes in a box). Eat when you're hungry, and try to notice patterns (hmm, I feel all cranky at 3:30 if I skip the apple and peanut butter I usually have AROUND 3).

My "usual" day of eating when I'm healthy and fit (coming back from an injury right now, so I'm eating much less):

Morning- Cup or two of coffee (black, no sugar- this is a matter of taste, not a health decision). Two eggs, three pieces of bacon, 2 pieces wheat toast with a little butter (if I'm up early enough to run then cook) or two pieces wheat toast with peanut butter (if I slept in)

Lunch- burrito or leftovers from dinner

Afternoon- another cup of coffee, maybe a banana or a Snickers or something

Evening- main run of the day

Post-run- dinner, which is my big meal of the day. Nothing fancy here, just stuff I grew up eating (I find cooking relaxing). Standard template is meat, a green vegetable, and a carb. Examples- pork chop with breadcrumbs in the oven, as much steamed kale or spinach as I can fit on my plate, a baked potato; hash browns with green and red peppers and onions with a good piece of very rare steak; various soups and stews when I end up with 8 bags of half a serving of frozen vegetables each, etc. Sometimes my roommate and I go halfs on groceries, other times I just cook for myself and eat the leftovers the next day. I'm big on doing things like roasting a chicken, then turning the bird into soup a few days later. Dinner also includes at least 2 beers or, if it's in the house, a large glass of red wine. I live with three of my best friends and we entertain a lot, so the wine is more of a consequence of that than any sort of wizardry regarding the tannins or something.

I do try to buy stuff as unprocessed as possible, which means spending a little more money. It's not a perfect diet- oftentimes on weekends I'll get lazy and heat up a frozen pizza or something. On the other hand, I eat a lot of vegetables, a good amount of fruit, and never feel guilt, shame, or anxiety about what I eat. I've been told that the 2-3 beers a night I drink are too many, but I find the beer much easier to do without than the morning coffee!

I think the most important thing is to try to take a longer view of food. By that I mean I don't get too bent out of shape when my roommates and I order wings and fries during a Patriots game or something, because I know of the 21 meals and 5-6 mid-sized snacks I have during the week, only one or two of them would be so-called "junk food." I think the fact that my eating habits never cause me worry is of more benefit to my attitude and training than being a ball of anxiety with a perfect diet. Doubtless, this attitude will draw fire. It is what it is.

Good luck; I'm glad you're seeing someone about this to try to cultivate less rigidity.

I pretty much do the same as redux.

5 days at work keep me pretty much on a tight eating schedule, and I run in the afternoon. That keeps me from eating too bad at lunch in and of itself. (I can't run a hard tempo if I ate a big burger & fries at lunch.)

That means Sat. is my splurge day AND its usually my LR day too, so I've burnt off at least 15M+ worth of calories that morning.

Check out M.Fitzgerald's Racing Weight book. Good stuff.

imaginary wrote:

xenonscreams wrote:

Not really sure what the point of that would be. I dig my heme iron and calcium.

You know not to take iron and calcium at the same time, do you? Calcium inhibits iron absorption. Take them separately at different times.

Yeah, I know this. Thanks anyways.

But also I don't "take" heme iron, since heme iron necessarily implies that it comes from meat.

Anyways, this is part of what freaks me out about diet. Crap like this I have to plan around. I hate that half of LRC is encouraging my neurosis and the other half is telling me to just let loose. Where the hell are all of the people who have actually found the middle ground?