NXN v. Footlocker

I still remember Rupp being interviewed on the broadcast of last year's NXNs. He talked about how nice it was that there was finally a high school national championship in cross country. I guess he's still pissed that he lost at Footlocker.

Has pretty much entered an equilibrium phase over the last few years in terms of both meets sharing the top talents. Personally speaking, I'd go to FL if I was an elite individual that wasn't part of a truly elite team. The NXN course is also a giant turd. Also agree with others that Nike shills/employees have caused some backlash towards their product with the incessant bashing of FL and even worse, calling out kids as inferior for choosing FL over Nike. Pretty shameful stuff coming from supposedly grown men.

Joe Mama wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but its a default we are talking about boy/mens running unless states otherwise.... this Cain non-sense is silly, why would I want to watch someone I am faster than...

Typical silliness.

I agree with you except for one thing- I'm 54.

ok, change it to anyone saying footlocker is better is uninformed and you got it.

Raptured wrote:

I still remember Rupp being interviewed on the broadcast of last year's NXNs. He talked about how nice it was that there was finally a high school national championship in cross country. I guess he's still pissed that he lost at Footlocker.

The team championship is important.

Cross-Country is a team sport- it makes every runner matter, even the 15th fastest guy on the team who pushes everyone faster than him to hold their positions on the team.

One thing that makes XC great is that there is the team element to go with the individual element.

Just open your minds to reality.

BOTH races attract top talent but FL is slipping and someday they'll cease to exist unless they work something out with Nike.

You're comparing a meet of 200 kids (NXN) to a meet of 40 kids (FL). That's not exactly fair. For all of those "didn't compete at either" kids, go back and see which one they attempted to qualify for if you want a better picture of which races kids are choosing.

snickering wrote:

You're comparing a meet of 200 kids (NXN) to a meet of 40 kids (FL). That's not exactly fair. For all of those "didn't compete at either" kids, go back and see which one they attempted to qualify for if you want a better picture of which races kids are choosing.

NXR = NXN Regionals

FLR = Foot Locker Regionals (although as you can see above, some of the "FLR" is listed as "NXN" because I copy/pasted but didn't change it - but it's easy to figure out, since I listed the Foot Locker Regionals after the Foot Locker Nationals.)

So, with that new understanding, feel free to go back and look at the post and marvel at how similar participation both meets have.

Also, the vast majority of "didn't compete at either" are because they are foreign athletes although there are quite a few that simply didn't compete beyond their state meet in cross country.

So you make this assumption because you participated in NXN?

Unless you participated in both, how would you know?

The reality is, NXN is the team national championship. FL is the individual championship. Sure, the winner of NXN could beat the winner of FL some years, FL is for individuals, NXN for teams. Its apples and oranges.

Your data is pointless, it hardly indicates who was elite at the time they ran the race and who was not... ever hear of Ryan Deak... exactly... high school elite college dud... therefore, who gives a hoot about the top 100 colleges places, you think just maybe there is some correlation between kids that love running and will run in any meet open to them, and kids that become successful in college after they have trained for another four years, gee I don't know... n00b... go look at the top HS track times from last year in the 2 or 1 mile and compare that... it's more of an apples to apples... what you have presented dishonest, at best, and some typical Nike employee...

The fact that you're close to NXN and/or the people that run it makes you an impartial party - right?

This is the kind of hubris that causes some to really dislike Nike and the people associated with it.

P.S. Your course still sucks.

The main reason for CA top runners is their state champs are the qualifying race for Nike. If they are the top 5 not on a team proceeding to the race then they auto qualify.

Unless you were a shoe in to make footlocker why would you decline a spot at NXN to have to run yet another qualifying race? If Footlocker would accept the top 5 CA from their state meet (whether they are on an NXN qualifying team or not) automatically they would get the cream of the crop from CA. Instead they get only the leftovers.

Let's Go To The Videotape wrote:

runn wrote:

I agree with you except for one thing- I'm 54.

ok, change it to anyone saying footlocker is better is uninformed and you got it.

The fact that you're close to NXN and/or the people that run it makes you an impartial party - right?

This is the kind of hubris that causes some to really dislike Nike and the people associated with it.

P.S. Your course still sucks.

This "Old Referee" guy has the classic hobby jogger mentality... NXN is better for the gear, NXN is better for the hotel... Let me guess you put on local 5k's and hope to one day put on a rock'n roll half... FL is about tradition, and is about determining who is the best high school runner, not about gear you n00b... I know you probably are going to cite some Runner's World article that says, "runners have voted! and the thing they look for most in a race is super cool 'swag'!" well I honestly hope these kids do go to NXN over FL, then they can turn out to be super cool hobby joggers like you, and I can keep winning the local 5K's until I am in my 70's...

btw, I wonder how terrible the NXN "swag" will be when they finally shut down FL, my guess is the kids will be paying Nike $$ every step of the way to even look at their second rate course....

What everyone has to remember is that the different shoe companies are the ones who put up the money for FL every year. Nike was the sponsor for years.

While a sponsor, Nike approached FL with the idea to incorporate a team aspect to their race. Nike was willing to pay 100% of the additional expense for the teams to attend. FL did not understand the team element to XC (& didn't even know how to score a team event), and did not feel like it was important to expand the scope of their meet. Nike felt like the team aspect was important enough, so they decided to start NXN. FL could have had it all, but made the decision not to expand.

I know Nike is far from perfect, but you would think runners would be happy that they throw over a million dollars at an event to promote HS XC.

World XC Champs have less than 100 finishers,

http://www.iaaf.org/results/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships/2013/40th-iaaf-world-cross-country-championships-2-5096/men/senior-race/final/result

World Champs Marathon had 50 Finishers,

http://www.iaaf.org/results/iaaf-world-championships-in-athletics/2013/14th-iaaf-world-championships-4873/men/marathon/final/result

Foot Locker prepares these kids for championship racing at the highest level, not like at NXN, where you have to weave through 18:00 5K Boys.

pwnage!!!! get 1337!!! what do you have to say to that watchout!! please show us some charts and graphs of some more meaningless statistics.. and when you make an outrageous statement like FL doesn't know how to score a team meet (you are telling me no one there knew how, or just a random Corp. Executive didn't), well lets be honest, you make it very easy to see that you work for big brother Nike.... Nike is the evil empire that makes money off of EVERYTHING, and when you don't play by their rules they demonize you, then cannibalize your race...

Gcol wrote:

World XC Champs have less than 100 finishers,

http://www.iaaf.org/results/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships/2013/40th-iaaf-world-cross-country-championships-2-5096/men/senior-race/final/result

World Champs Marathon had 50 Finishers,

http://www.iaaf.org/results/iaaf-world-championships-in-athletics/2013/14th-iaaf-world-championships-4873/men/marathon/final/result

Foot Locker prepares these kids for championship racing at the highest level, not like at NXN, where you have to weave through 18:00 5K Boys.

I stand by my statement that Fl did not know how to score a team meet. How many people do you think there are in the events department of Corp. FL? Where do you think having an XC background ranks on the job description compared to having a basketball background? Remember, we're talking about a company that is not that far removed from being Woolworth's.

Do I work for Nike? No, but I do live in Portland and have lots of friends who work for Nike (And Adidas. And Keen. And Columbia...). You would think that a company making money was a bad thing. XC & TF are lucky they have a US based company that pump a huge amount of $$ into the sport. Is it self serving? Sure, but were would the sport be without the money that Nike pumps into it?

Isn't more exposure for the sport a good thing? Isn't the team championship as (Or more) important than the individual in XC races? Why not celebrate the team aspect at the end of the year?

If Nike named you to a special marketing team and said you had 1 million to promote XC, how would you spend the money? I know I would look at events to build a base with younger runners. I would want to feel like I was giving back to the XC community. I would want my name associated with the event to maximize the limited return I was getting from my investment (Quick: Who's the footwear sponsor of FL this year?). I would want teams all over the country dreaming about qualifying for my event. Sounds like NXN to me.

Take the "I am the 99%" sign out of your front yard, and be happy a 20 billion dollar company cares about promoting your sport.

Funny thing is, if Nike really wanted to bury Footlocker, they'd just pull their account from Footlocker. Footlocker could not last a month if they could not sell Nikes.

XC championships are supposed to be run in "cold and slop."

If you are on a team that has a shot at qualifying for NXN, of course you run that qualifier. If not, your choice should be based ENTIRELY on which national race you would rather run. NOT on the peripherals like free goodies. Years later you will care ONLY about how well you ran in your biggest high school race ever. You will NOT care about the freebies you got.

Since the competition is currently excellent in both races, the decision comes down to which is the better, fairer course. And that is San Diego. It has real hills, not hay bales, and it won't have the absurd mud that happens too often in Portland. Some mud is fine in XC but it should not be the sole defining aspect of the course.