Manziel ran a 4.34 40 completely hand-timed, probably by someone with a little stopwatch experience.
Just as a point of comparison, I ran 10.93 the season that I ran a 4.38 40 yard dash, by similar timing methods, the fall before. I also have slower starts, so Manziel's t
Based on that, which isn't much, I'm guessing Manziel would be right around 10.9x-11.0x WITH a few months of sprint-specific training. If he goes out and runs 100m right now, I bet he runs around 11.2
from Guru Mat James
11.0 is quick, but not that quick. We had soccer kids walk on our HS team and break 11s. Johnny Football is the best NCAA Football player. He can break 11s.
I have already provided links to prove that kids in Chicago high school track meets typically win meets in 11.00 seconds. And that some of the other athletes who reached the final run as slow as 12.00 sec. And you would have us believe that a soccer walk on can break 11.00 ? Really ?
And yes Johhny Football was the best NCAA football player but so was Peyton Manning and other heisman winners. By your logic then Peyton Manning can also break 11.00 sec
Manziel was timed as low as 4.34 on one occasion, but his average is not surprisingly much higher. The 4.34 was undoubtedly a quick trigger.
He's been timed as slow as 4.56, which pretty much resolves this question alone.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119572&draftyear=2016&genpos=QB
The Guru Matt James wrote:
We had soccer kids walk on our HS team and break 11s.
Of course you did. 11 in the 100 and can outrun the entire cross team! What can't soccer players do?
Joplas wrote:
Ah yes....Australia. A major world power in elite sprinting. Clearly, if Australian rugby players can't break 11, then how could a Heisman winner do it?
Give a break. I broke 11 (10.89 PB) in college. And I was a walk-on scrub who never won anything.
Comparing Manziel to Aussie rugby players is a valid comparison.
Do you expect me to compare Manziel to world class sprinters ? Some of you do not put your brains in gear before posting.
PS Nobody believes your 10.89 nonsense unless you provide proof.
Nope. Comparing an American football player to an Australian rugby player regarding 100m sprint potential is not valid.
Comparing Manziel to elite professional sprinters isn't valid either. You were right about that. It's difficult to ascertain a college football player's 100m potential if they haven't actually competed in the event recently. But for a Heisman-winning player who is considered fast in a sport where explosive speed is very important, I wouldn't be surprised to see him run a mediocre 100m time like 10.8-10.9. Granted, he may need a bit of training to work on his start, technique, etc.
Regarding my 10.89 claim: I don't have proof. I ran college track in the late 90s and I can't find any online results. But it doesn't matter. I don't really feel like I need to prove to anyone that I was a mediocre walk-on who wasn't even in the top 3 sprinters on my own team. If you must know, I ran at UNC-Charlotte. But if I gave you my name, you won't find it on any all-time performance lists on the UNCC website, because my times weren't good enough to be archived. And that's exactly my point. Breaking 11.0 is ok, but there are SO many walk-on scrubs at universities across the country doing it, that I hardly think it's a standard of excellence in sprinting. I'm guessing Manziel could do it if he really wanted to.
However fast he is he will look at lot slower once he get's to the NFL.
from I kinda like running
Nope. Comparing an American football player to an Australian rugby player regarding 100m sprint potential is not valid.
It is valid. A football player like Manziel is comparable to an Aussie rugby player. And we have objective evidence regarding how fast the quickest Aussie players can run. I watch both football and rugby and There is no reason to believe that Manziel is faster than the quickest Australian wingers. . In fact its highly unlikely that Manziel can run faster than every single Australian rugby player. And that is why I mentioned that race in Australia. If the winner ran 11.10, I find it shocking that some think Manziel can run 10.70
Comparing Manziel to elite professional sprinters isn't valid either. You were right about that. It's difficult to ascertain a college football player's 100m potential if they haven't actually competed in the event recently. But for a Heisman-winning player who is considered fast in a sport where explosive speed is very important, I wouldn't be surprised to see him run a mediocre 100m time like 10.8-10.9. Granted, he may need a bit of training to work on his start, technique, etc.
Simply not true. You cannot project a runners 100m time by simply saying he is considered fast in a sport where speed is important. In football he only runs for 20-30 yard busts. How do you know if he can sustain that speed for 100m ? And unlike punt returners, we havent really seen Manziels top end speed. We know he is good in short bursts.
I agree with you that it is difficult to ascertain how fast a football player can run 100m. Which is why I am surprised that you insist he can run 10.70. You are contradicting yourself.
Eric Crouch run 10.4 for the 100m in high school. I highly doubt it was FAT, though.
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/huskertrackmag/100metersboys.html
He ran 10.95 at the Nebraska state meet his senior year:
false analogy: because aussie rugby players cannot run sub 11, one of the fastest college football quarterbacks cannot do so.
he outruns many of the best football sprinters in the country on a weekly basis in a region replete with sub 10.8 sprinters.
college kid wrote:
Eric Crouch run 10.4 for the 100m in high school. I highly doubt it was FAT, though.
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/huskertrackmag/100metersboys.htmlHe ran 10.95 at the Nebraska state meet his senior year:
https://nsaahome.org/textfile/track/abres97.htm#AB17
Crouch ran 10.82 in prelims... I'm guessing Johnny Football would run something in the 10.9-11.0 range.
speed kills in football and you have one of the top speed guys, albeit at qb, and you want to say that he's slower than thousands of hs sprinters. why aren't those sprinters out there on Saturdays outrunning all of the SEC's best?
Joplas wrote:
255 high schoolers ran a 10.70 FAT or faster last year (All-Conditions). And I bet there were many more that ran close to that hand timed.
How many of these were hand timed versus electronically timed. Handing timing can shave as much as 0.3 sec from an electronic time
0. FAT means Fully Automatic Timing.
And yes, hand timing can shave off as much as 0.3 seconds from an electronic time. That's why I made the point about you thinking he couldn't stay within half a second of 255 high school athletes.
lulz wrote:
watchout wrote:255 high schoolers ran a 10.70 FAT or faster last year (All-Conditions). And I bet there were many more that ran close to that hand timed.
You don't think an NCAA Elite Football athlete can stay within about a half second of 255 high schoolers (10.70+0.50=11.20, 11.20 FAT ~ 11.0h)?
And not that 40y times, even FAT, have a perfect correlation to 100m ability, but 4.53 isn't slow... and if he can run that (again, FAT) for 40y, and had a couple of months to work on extending that combination of speed and acceleration, you think it's crazy that he can get down near 10.70? Or, worse yet, that 50% of professional athletes that run the 40y in 4.40 or better would struggle to run 11.00 for 100m if they worked on it for just a little bit???
I would say substantially more than 50% of those high school times were either wind assisted or faulty timing. I've seen high school meets start at a 90m mark, set up the wing gauge the wrong direction (if there even is one), run on short tracks, and more. Look at what they run at the big invitationals, nationals, and if they are from a real state, their state meet. You make finals of almost every state if you can run a legit 10.80-10.90, even FL/Texas/Ca. One kid from my area and his teammate, back in high school, made the nation's top list with a 10.4x and 10.6x respectively. Neither made the state meet. They both ran in some ultra shitty, small invitational their school held that had dubious timing and had everybody running .6-.8 prs. I wish that was some one off example, but it happens ALL THE TIME, particularly at the HS level, but even in D3 & JUCO track.
Second, there was a recent study that showed college football players, on average, got slower over the course of their 4 years, but gained something like 20-30lbs of muscle. The majority couldn't come close to matching their high school speed and the ones that can are basically training for track anyway.
40yd times are simply retarded and a non-discussion point. They are handtimed and 1/4 of the total race distance. It is pointless to even mention them.
Long story short, the vast majority would get dusted over 100m without specific training. With that said, the talent level is insane so if they didn't pack on too much muscle and they gave it some legitimate effort in training, they could run extremely fast.
That's why I singled out the number of kids that ran 10.70 or faster in All Conditions - that way wind gauges set up or read wrong, or meets that don't have wind gauges (which is the vast majority of meets, even lots of big meets).
But you really think that there are many, if any, meets where these kinds of times are not only run, but recorded by outlets like Dyestat as being on the leaderboard run only 90 meters? Or are run on tracks that are magically measured short??
You think SEC players bulk up so much they lose their speed?? Even players at a position like QB were mobility plays a much greater role than having the strength to get past blocks or tackle a guy?
You think FAT marks for 40y taken at top-end recruiting camps are really lying when they say they are FAT, and that they are hand timed? And that they are only 30y?
COME ON! I've never heard a couple people (you and Joplas) try to come up with so ridiculous reasoning just to deny the fact that top-end football athletes are actually really athletic.
The 4.34 is misleading. He never actually was timed at 4.34. There is no way he has that kind of speed
He admitts he hasnt been time officially since college, but he stated he thinks he could run around 4.5
watchout wrote:
That's why I singled out the number of kids that ran 10.70 or faster in All Conditions - that way wind gauges set up or read wrong, or meets that don't have wind gauges (which is the vast majority of meets, even lots of big meets).
But you really think that there are many, if any, meets where these kinds of times are not only run, but recorded by outlets like Dyestat as being on the leaderboard run only 90 meters? Or are run on tracks that are magically measured short??
Absolutely, I do. Magical? There is nothing magical about these shitty meets. Look at what happens when they go to a 'real' meet run by semi-competent individuals. The largest division by enrollment in FL hasn't had more than 10 kids breaking 11fat at the state meet the last 2 years when you get the FAT timing out at a collegiate facility.
You think SEC players bulk up so much they lose their speed?? Even players at a position like QB were mobility plays a much greater role than having the strength to get past blocks or tackle a guy?
Nice strawman. Th point is that they don't improve their speed, particularly past initial/early acceleration. And yes, I would say weighing >210lbs at what, 6'1"? Yeah, that is big enough to be affecting his performance on the track if he was a sprinter.
You think FAT marks for 40y taken at top-end recruiting camps are really lying when they say they are FAT, and that they are hand timed? And that they are only 30y?
There are no FAT 40yd times anywhere. 0. The closest you'll find is that they manually start the athlete, but use a laser to stop the clock. That isn't FAT, kid.
COME ON! I've never heard a couple people (you and Joplas) try to come up with so ridiculous reasoning just to deny the fact that top-end football athletes are actually really athletic.
What the fvck are you talking about?
Yes, there is some serious talent out there athletically, but let's be realistic about what it is.
JFF is nothing close to even a great high school sprinter. He is quick. He doesn't have some break away speed that has him running away from DBs and catching WRs in full stride. Most football guys that are legitimately fast did, I don't fvcking know, run track during their life in case that football thing didn't pan out. Most, lie Marqise Lee, were very good, but not even one of the best at the state level (his PR after having done track for years is 10.7w and he is a wide receiver).
And beyond that, most of the talent comes in potential, not actual ability to currently do it. None of these guys would even come close to running decent times without some serious training, although I certainly believe that they could (or could have if they started earlier) put up some fantastic marks with the right training and enough time. Not dissimilar from believing that there are some soccer players that, with the right training, could have been elite or near elite mid distance type guys, but they sure as hell aren't going out and running a 1:50 800 without serious training.
I never said he could run 10.7. I'm saying he could break 11. I'd put Johnny more in the 10.85 - 10.95 range. Although, I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he could go faster.
Once again, Eric Crouch ran 10.95 in college in the 100m, much slower than high school. Crouch won the Heisman Trophy because he was "fast". I doubt Johnny could outrun Crouch over 100m.
http://www.huskers.com//pdf1/971.pdf
. - page 6.
3700 yards passing with 26 td's, 1400 yards rushing, 7 yards per carry, with 21 td's, the Heisman trophy. Eric Crouch with a behemoth Nebraska line and 4.5-5 yards per carry without much passing is not worthy of this comparison.
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
3700 yards passing with 26 td's, 1400 yards rushing, 7 yards per carry, with 21 td's, the Heisman trophy. Eric Crouch with a behemoth Nebraska line and 4.5-5 yards per carry without much passing is not worthy of this comparison.
What are you talking about?
What does 3700 passing yards have to do with how fast someone can run a 100m? How many passing yards did Dan Marino have over his career? ... Usain Bolt? Does that mean that Dan Marino is faster than Usain Bolt because he has more passing yards? I supposed Marino could run 9.2 for the 100m. Peyton Manning could probably run 9.3 and Brett Favre could break under 9.0, after all they are better passers than Bolt, who isn't even a good enough passer to play in the NFL.
By the way, Crouch has a Heisman Trophy as well. Probably not very deserving, but he still won the Heisman Trophy. His team also played in the National Championship game. Granted they got beat pretty bad, but still played in the National Championship game. He was drafted in the 3rd round as a wide receiver by the Rams. He was considered fast by football standards, but that didn't mean he could step on the track and compete at a high level without training.
Another comparison for comparisons sake; Pierre Garcon of the Washington Redskins ran NCAA DIII track and field for Mount Union for 2 years. The first year he ran on the track team, he ran a 10.61 PR in the 100m Dash and a couple other 10.6s and 10.7s. The next year he ran a bit slower, in the 10.8s and 10.9s, but I would suspect he was starting to focus more on bulking for an eventual attempt at the NFL which might have had an effect on his performances on the track.
He is in the NFL now and he's considered a pretty fast WR, but not necessarily amongst the fastest.
He also got beat by TWO short white kids on the team when he was running those 10.6/10.7s, one of them consistently beat him by 3 tenths of a second the whole season. Pierre is now a millionare and the other two short white kids......are not.
Speed is important in football, but it doesn't entirely make or break you as a football player. 10.6 (FAT) is good, but in elite track and field sprinting in the 10.6s isn't particularly noteworthy. Whether Johnny Manziel has the speed of someone like Pierre Garcon, I'm not sure. I would suspect not, but I could be wrong, and even if Manziel is considerably slower than someone like Garcon in a sprinting sense, he might still pull out a 10.9 on a good day (especially if trained a bit more for a 100m Dash distance).