LetsRun.com wrote:
Race video:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/08/video-of-womens-800m-2013-dn-galan-stockholm-diamond-league-meet/
And to think some people were flipped crap for calling out her coach and herself for not teaching her how to run different tactics over the 800....
http://imgur.com/DAXexHTA Duck wrote:
LetsRun.com wrote:Race video:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/08/video-of-womens-800m-2013-dn-galan-stockholm-diamond-league-meet/And to think some people were flipped crap for calling out her coach and herself for not teaching her how to run different tactics over the 800....
http://imgur.com/DAXexHT
Why do you say "herself" right there?
A really decent runner who needs a slight adjustment in her pacing and a great deal of work on her tactical lane choice in the final straightaway.
A good coach ought to be able to work on this with her. She obviously has the killer instinct. Just not great aim.
She cut right across her bow and they almost collided. Not pretty but it did get her back into the race for first. But then she did that lane change "thing".
I don't get it.
It could be as simple as unvoluntarily favouring one leg - with drifting coming into play out of the last curve and down the home stretch when shifting into last gear going all out "forward".
It's been a long season, it's not unlikely she has something bothering her in a foot or a knee or a glutes - and remember that she also did FALL pretty hard over the line on the track in Moscow...
Peter Andersson wrote:
It could be as simple as unvoluntarily favouring one leg - with drifting coming into play out of the last curve and down the home stretch when shifting into last gear going all out "forward".
It's been a long season, it's not unlikely she has something bothering her in a foot or a knee or a glutes - and remember that she also did FALL pretty hard over the line on the track in Moscow...
Yeah.
Part of me hesitates to pass any sort of harmless "judgment" since I have not "walked" (er, ran) "in her shoes," so to speak, but I'll go out on limb here in saying that I probably am not alone amongst casual fans in perceiving this to be objectively bizarre.
Even though I've participated many times in tiring (but certainly not high-level) track races where I didn't have issues with maintaining precise positioning within a lane, or staying within the first two lanes,
I still do marvel at Elite athletes who maintain and navigate such finite precision.
But I've watched such precision in both televised and live, in-person, trackside (from various angles) angles to think that such control is not just the result of exceptional athletes out there, but seems to be a norm in the Pros. Even if it may be "easy" to drift all the way out in Lane 5, fact is, I basically never see that happen.
If she does this sort of thing again, I would hope to see some answers for it in the media.
efdsasfddsaf wrote:
Something else I wanted to mention is the possibility of sneaking up on your opponent from lane 5. Possible that the Kenyan didn't see her so far over and she was going for the element of surprise. Is this legal?
Legal? Are you drunk?
The most bizarre thing ever. Not just Montano's ridiculous finish (????) but the rabbit and the bronze medalist finishing so far back. The whole race was just weird.
AboutBillions wrote:
It's because she's dumb! Like Bill Bowerman played by Donald Sutherland said in fictional film ''Without Limits'' said He's a front runner , it may work in high school level ,but in international level it's a disaster, of course that was said about Steve Prefontaine ,played by Billy Crudup , but i think in this case of Montano this also applies. Just ask Charles Jock, Duane ''BANG" Solomon, Z.Tadese , Haile Haile Geb when he tryed to drop Bekele in 2003 in 10k. It just dumb!
This was crazier than Maggie Vassey's 800 a few years back when she opened up 40 meters behind everyone else in the field kicked home home and finished 20 meters behind everyone and then proceeded to act let nothing she did was dumb.
Pythagoras would be ashamed of every poster on here.
Alysia Montano would have lost anyway. Her mistake only cost her approximately 0.03 seconds!!!
In case you need a refresher
a^2 + b^2 = c^2
or the sum of the squares of the legs of a right triangle is equal to the square of the hypotenuse.
Okay so lets do the math
90m straightaway
approx 5.7m of horizontal distance (1.22m per lane +0.05m for the lane line) x 4.5.
so 90^2 + 5.7^2 = (actual distance ran)^2
Solving for actual distance ran you get 90.181 m ran.
Now assuming she was running around 60s/lap (6.67m/s) over the last 100m on average (which is the pace of her last lap overall), we can divide the distance extra ran by the speed at which she ran it and we get the extra time she ran for.
So 0.181m / (6.67 m/s) = 0.0272 s
Which would have lowered her time to 1:58.93 (still well behind the winner)
So despite the oddity of her running out to lane 5, this decision did not affect the final outcome of the race.
dude, this has all been worked out already
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5363534
dissenters feel that since no one runs in a straight line pythagorean math doesn't work. others feel that if montano had been on the heels of sum, she might have been motivated to pass more.
Pythagoras Would Be Ashamed wrote:
Pythagoras would be ashamed of every poster on here.
Alysia Montano would have lost anyway. Her mistake only cost her approximately 0.03 seconds!!!
In case you need a refresher
a^2 + b^2 = c^2
or the sum of the squares of the legs of a right triangle is equal to the square of the hypotenuse.
Okay so lets do the math
90m straightaway
approx 5.7m of horizontal distance (1.22m per lane +0.05m for the lane line) x 4.5.
so 90^2 + 5.7^2 = (actual distance ran)^2
Solving for actual distance ran you get 90.181 m ran.
Now assuming she was running around 60s/lap (6.67m/s) over the last 100m on average (which is the pace of her last lap overall), we can divide the distance extra ran by the speed at which she ran it and we get the extra time she ran for.
So 0.181m / (6.67 m/s) = 0.0272 s
Which would have lowered her time to 1:58.93 (still well behind the winner)
So despite the oddity of her running out to lane 5, this decision did not affect the final outcome of the race.
has a little more detail.
A few points: 1) She didn't verry straight in a perfectly straight line which will make the distance she ran further.
2) I now readily accept if she ran straight out it didn't cost her .12.
Without doing the math I assumed it definitely cost her more than that but can see I was wrong.
I wonder if montano's stubbornness on this sort of thing hurt her with Nike - remember that she lost her Nike sponsorship over the winter and ran unattached at millrose.
Asics picked her up pretty quickly.
Rankings wrote:
She finally gets it right, but then throws it all away in the last 20 meters by drifting out to lane 5. She would have won no doubt had she not done that.
No. NO.
Anyone who thought Sum had nothing left in the tank does not know how the W800 should be, and is, raced by most of the best. Generally, when you pass someone in the last 80 meters of an 800 and take the lead you have put her away for good. Just to be sure, you slow down to have something left if she manages to make a surge. In the last 400 Montano comes back to the pack, and all of her competitors know it. If she was gaining ever so slightly on Sum in the last 20 meters, it was because Sum had let up. If Montano comes up on Sum's shoulder it's Sayonara, Alysia.
Ajee Wilson has been coached by one of the best 800 meter tacticians in the business: Derek Thompson. That is the way Ajee races when she takes the lead on the home stretch.
RunninAD wrote:
Tadese and Geb actually had to do it, they could never have outsprinted Bekele in those races. For different reasons obviously, one just losing to the better 10k man and Geb just having his best track racing behind him. In fact, same for Pre too, he wasn't a sprinter. Whereas Montano has clearly exhibited the ability to kick for home and be in it. But hell, props to her for having bigger balls than most of the US runners combined.
Leading is good. It's not the leading that's the issue, it's the pacing. If she ran 58-58 1:56 that would be very good.
This race was closer as she went out in 58, but she slowed drastically right after 600 meters, then she picked it up again in the stretch. I doubt she's ever done that in the FIRST lap of a race, but is not used to running even pace on the 2nd lap, maintaining her momentum and running an even pace all the way.
She is simply not used to doing this, but can learn it quite easily with some practice.
J.R. wrote:
RunninAD wrote:Tadese and Geb actually had to do it, they could never have outsprinted Bekele in those races. For different reasons obviously, one just losing to the better 10k man and Geb just having his best track racing behind him. In fact, same for Pre too, he wasn't a sprinter. Whereas Montano has clearly exhibited the ability to kick for home and be in it. But hell, props to her for having bigger balls than most of the US runners combined.
Leading is good. It's not the leading that's the issue, it's the pacing. If she ran 58-58 1:56 that would be very good.
This race was closer as she went out in 58, but she slowed drastically right after 600 meters, then she picked it up again in the stretch. I doubt she's ever done that in the FIRST lap of a race, but is not used to running even pace on the 2nd lap, maintaining her momentum and running an even pace all the way.
She is simply not used to doing this, but can learn it quite easily with some practice.
I had Montano's splits at 57.4/61.5. What I was thinking afterward was to compare those splits with her WC splits. These were 56.06/61.89. So, Montano does not run sub 61 in the second 400s. I suspect this is typical. I am not sure Montano has to run even splits. What I am thinking is her priority should now be on the second 400 split, and that it should be 60 or better. Then Montano should adjust her first 400 to get to the 60 benchmark.
As it is now, none of her top competitors is intimidated by her 57-56 opening 400s. It's a game of Catch the Pacer, Montano, and they know that with a blistering first 400 by Montano, they will. What they have to do is keep within 6-7 meters of Montano at 400 and run their second 400 in 60 or better.
Why does Montano run these much-too-fast opening 400s? I think it's part aesthetic, part sensual, part spiritual. She runs a sub 57 opening 400 and IT FEELS WONDERFUL. However, her luxurious pastime is expensive, and Alysia is confronted with the cost when the race ends. I like Alysia enormously, and it hurts to see her in pain afterwards.