MENS 1500 Same HorseSHIIIT, Sam Slow pace, Then KICK SHIIT. When is it going to STOP?

wonder wrote:

I'm going out on a limb here, i dont really know what i am talking about. But if you know your pr is 6 seconds slower than the top seed and you also know that your kick much is worse..

would it not be a better to go all out from the start and hope the top seed has one of those days where he just wont be able to run at max? I believe kicks are much more stable than "time trial" times?

no. 6 seconds is too much. you will end up passed by everyone. the top seed will not be that much slower.

If you are in a championship race, and you are 5-6 seconds slower than the fastest guy(s) - the whole field in this case - your best hope is to sit very quiet, run economically, hope one or two competitors waste nervous energy, trip each other up, or get trapped in box. There is just no upside (as far as finishing position is concerned) in pushing the pace against much quicker opposition.

I have actually medalled in a National Champs (albeit Masters) in an embarrassingly slow time, but in a field where if we'd all run for time, I'd have been hanging on at the back. If I'd have led and pushed on, which I could easily have done at that pace, it either might have started the pace rolling, or I would have just run myself out while everyone took a ride.

The one time it would make sense to lead or push early is if you are the best guy (or one of) in the race, but don't have a great finish. Even then great runners like Landy, Clarke and Bedford couldn't run away from equally talented contemporaries.

You should do something about it then.

Otherwise, I'm tired of these ignorant complaints.

I have been saying this for ages!

A Duck wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

one of the worst WC 1500's ever.

You're an idiot.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Thing is, nobody made a move until the final 100! I thought I was watching the 3rd lap on the last lap.

13.9, 13.8, 13.2: Kiprop made the initial move of 54 second pace to burn all the pretenders (Brannen, O'Hare and to our surprise, Kiplagat) before firing the engine to pull a 12.7 final 100. Only Centro and the South African could muster another 13.1. The thing you people don't realize is that for all but maybe 3 athletes, ~57+ second laps is their 1500 pace.

To the "the only thing that matters is place" crowd, why don't you guys put some big money into road racing because that type of mentality belongs on the roads and trails, not the track. There is a reason why the track is calibrated to 400.00 metres.

TypicalLRer wrote:

Well.. back at the the All City Championships I didn't use such p#ssy tactics.

The gun went and I charged hard from the start. If anyone was going to beat me, they were going to earn it dammmit! I wanted to make my rivals hurt, to experience true pain.

These guys at the WCs need to start real running, ya know like Pre!

.

In my experience, I always loved it when runner's "near my ability" went out very fast. And for the runners who were obviously superior... It did not matter how they ran as far as my chances were concerned!

Have any of you losers complaining about "slow" championship races every run in that kind of race? My experience is very limited, but I thought it was 10 times harder to pick up the pace dramatically halfway through than run a fast, steady pace the whole way. Everyone is trying to do what they think is best to win, not try to get through the race with as little discomfort as possible.

People would complain if someone did run a fast race because they would say it was "rabbitted" and not "real racing." I think it was so cool that El Guerrouj ran 3:27 in a world championship, but people hated that one of his teammates sacrificed himself to make the race fast (or in other words, what the Kenyan tactic was supposed to be).

Then you have your slow races, where they wait anywhere from the last 500m down to just the last 150m to kick, and people will complain that it was boring to watch and it took away from finding out the best 1500m runner and instead just became a race of who is the best 400m runner.

Then you have those races where people do crazy things like mid race surges (i.e. Alan Webb in 2005, where his 3rd lap was in 53 seconds), but then they get ridiculed to death for doing something stupid like that instead of waiting.

The point is, someone will complain no matter what the tactic. I agree with the OP that I want a fast pace, but regardless of what the type of race is, someone would make this kind of thread no matter what the race. Had it been the race where El Guerrouj ran 3:27 at WC's, the thread would be:

"MENS 1500 Same HorseSH*T, Same Rabbiting in a Championship race SH*T. When are we going to see some real racing?"

And btw, I'm a 4:44 miler. I'm not super fast at all but I've broken 5 along with many people on this board (many on the board have broken 4:20 and some are even D1 or D2 college runners). I'm not super fast but I'm an avid track follower so I feel I can make an opinion on professional races and the runners' tactics despite not running a 3:50 mile, so lets cut the "everyone on this board is a slow loser" talk.

People aren't losers for being slow. People are losers because they have no real concept of what they are talking about. In high school, I ran every race as fast as I could with zero strategy. In college, I ran in a few conference championship races. It is a lot harder to run in a "tactical race" than a time trial, in my opinion. Have you noticed a lot of complaints from people in championship races about these slower races? Feel free to complement or complain about an individual runners tactics, but I think a lot of people get tired of the "everyone in the race is a moron and a p***sy" thread after thread by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Poster Formerly Knownas Goober wrote:

Pre would have ran sub 4 and dared anyone to come with him.

Then got outkicked coming last; but a hero to some idiots on here.

Pulled a Muscle Yawning wrote:

[quote]Are You Stupid wrote:

I am so tired of this ridiculous argument and canned defense of so-called "tactical" racing. Throwing in multiple surges is tactical; jogging for 1100 meters and then seeing who has the best 400 speed literally is a gutless copout.

And, yes, "tactical" racing as defined by the likes of you is in fact gutless racing. Everyone in the race is literally AFRAID to lay it on the line for FEAR of being beaten by a better runner. Run it honest or don't run at all!

So I suppose if you were Centrozitz's coach, you would tell him to go through 800m in 1:52, letting Kiprop (3:27 PR) follow you. That would be VERY smart you dumbazz. About as dumb as Alyssa montano's coach

One factor not mentioned is the effect of running your third race in four days in a vary high-pressure environment where one misstep can send you home. By the time most of these guys get to the final, they must be pretty fried neurally. Kiprop obviously knew that he just needed to stay cool to get the gold, but even he mentioned the high stress level in his post-race interview.

The field is like a bunch of punch-drunk fighters or skittish fillies, wasting all kinds of energy with moves, adjustments and second-guessing. Trying to string out the field early on is not even on the menu of options. It's all about reaction and keeping your cool, like an Old West gunfighter.

THIS is the area where Centro seems to excel, even above Kiprop, who has folded in some bigger races.

You get angry too easily. Why is that?

I didn't watch the race yet but Centro and Kiprop generally have kicks.

I want a real ball crusher running a race. Not someone who knows if "I run tactical, then maybe, just maybe, I can outkick this guy who always outkicks me"

Good points.

The complaints were coming regardless of how the race played out.

The only ones that should be complaining are Kiplagat an Chepseaba fans.

But I haven't seen those fans speak up, really.