which state has the hardest high state xc course?

Having only run the PA state course I can't speak to the others. That course is brutal in terms of hills but perhaps the worst part is that a sewage plant is literally on the course. You come up a short steep hill with about 300m left in the race and it's right next to the sewage plant. So your dog-tired, going up the final hill after a brutal course, and the smell of poop makes you want to vomit. They don't call it "poop-out" hill for nothing.

i-nt9-8lsDKJFnD wrote:

Derryfield has been getting easier year by year for at least the last 35 years

How has Derryfield Park been getting easier?

Vermont. Definitely. And I'm not from Vermont. (But have run Thetford many times.) Never ran another course even close to that difficult in college nor HS. Also because of construction at the school they made some changes to the course which I believe brought it to 3.19 or close.

Would love to see photos or video of the Colorado course, the Missouri course, and others people are throwing around, though, for sure.

d3 NE wrote:

Thetford Academy in Vermont - course would be hard enough dry with constant up and downs yet it almost always a mudslide, a slip and slide with virtually no traction.

My junior year I ran about 17:15 on NH's Derryfield Park which is also an extremely difficult course, then a week later 19:40 at Thetford in the pouring rain and complete mudslight

Thats probably conditions more than anything. I ran 17:20 ish at Thetford and 17:00 at Derryfield a month later my junior year. I'd say they're comparable courses.

The Dingo wrote:

Having only run the PA state course I can't speak to the others. That course is brutal in terms of hills but perhaps the worst part is that a sewage plant is literally on the course. You come up a short steep hill with about 300m left in the race and it's right next to the sewage plant. So your dog-tired, going up the final hill after a brutal course, and the smell of poop makes you want to vomit. They don't call it "poop-out" hill for nothing.

Seems like a terrible place to host an XC meet, let alone state...

Back in the day, West Virginia's state meet course was pretty tough...Tough climbs, 2 creek crossings, usually in crappy weather. I can't remember exact times, but I think the course record was only around 17:00...maybe a little under. The guy that set the record was also a Footlocker National Qualifier.

Virginia

JMac wrote:

Virginia

You mean the one McGorty just ran in the 14:40s on? Lol.

As a New England coach who has been to each of the five state courses (Mass doesn't compete in the New England meet, but that's a whole other thread) multiple times, the title of this thread is deceiving.

No doubt that Thetford, VT is the SLOWEST course, but that is not the subject of the thread. And the times run will be so dependent on how wet the course is ... although wet is more common at NE's time than is dry.

Talk to kids who have raced each course, and most will tell you that Derryfield Park in NH is HARDER than Thetford. The New Hampshire course is unforgiving.

The team I work with isn't from either VT or NH, so this is an unbiased analysis.

SomeCoach wrote:

As a New England coach who has been to each of the five state courses (Mass doesn't compete in the New England meet, but that's a whole other thread) multiple times, the title of this thread is deceiving.

No doubt that Thetford, VT is the SLOWEST course, but that is not the subject of the thread. And the times run will be so dependent on how wet the course is ... although wet is more common at NE's time than is dry.

Talk to kids who have raced each course, and most will tell you that Derryfield Park in NH is HARDER than Thetford. The New Hampshire course is unforgiving.

The team I work with isn't from either VT or NH, so this is an unbiased analysis.

Yes. If course conditions are applied I think Wickham in the snow wins hardest of all time (2004).

Train Hard wrote:

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota are all flat and fast

While most certainly not a hard course, the Minnesota course is a 'true' cross country course. It has it's share of hills, dirt, grass, and gravel. There's a good mix.

Illinois shouldn't be a question, it's notorious for being shy of 3 miles and a grass track. Iowa's is fast because it's short of a 5k, not sure how much the terrain contributes to it being fast, though.

Iphone app:

Main Index of 2012 state champs:

JMac wrote:

Virginia

Haha no. In the late fall, when the weather is good in VA, that course is a speedway. See also: Sean Mcgorty, 14:47, state champion.

Count me as another vote for Thetford, that course is absolutely brutal.

FWIW, Teg's state record on the MO course is 15:26 or so (what's his PR now, 12:58). That's when it was somewhat difficult. Back in the 70s/80s, the MO course was much tougher. Now, it is easier than when Teg ran on it.

It sounds like there are other states that have tougher courses than this, though.

Having run Thetford on 3 occasions, Derryfield , wick ham, and sunken meadow, here's my ranking:

Hardest

Sunken meadow

Derryfield

Thetford

Wickham

Slowest

Thetford

Derryfield

Sunken meadow

Wickham

Here is one photo from the Colorado course. This is the first of the two climbs. The second of the two climbs takes you to the top of the hill you see going off on the right side of the photo.

http://co.milesplit.com/photos/files/4257183#content

I'll see if I can find more in the photo albums from the state meet, but nobody taking pictures wanted to go to all the work to get to the top of the hill :-).

This one has to have been taken with a really long lens. It's looking up at the top of the hill from below, but you lose some of the perspective with the magnification.

http://co.milesplit.com/photos/files/4257183#content

Oops, posted the same link twice. Here's the one with the long lens from below:

http://co.milesplit.com/photos/files/3876217

And here's a photo album where three or four of the pictures give some idea of the climb rate on the hills. See especially the one toward the bottom with all the spectactors going up the front side of the hill.

http://co.milesplit.com/articles/95321-images-of-state#.UgL_w5K1F1w