RENATO CANOVA: "HOW TO BEAT MO FARAH?TO WAIT HE WILL BECOME OLD"

Ventolin, I remember very well the race of Ostrava.

One week before, El Guerrouj won 3000m in Torino, running 7'30" with the first 1500m in 3'49" (bad pacing) and the second half in 3'41" alone.

When we went Ostrava, in the technical meeting we learnt the pace at 3000m, requested by El Guerrouj, was 7'37" (Biwott last rabbit).

So I told Stephen "Hicham wants to try the WR, and in his mind he wants to be alone after 3k, because nobody can stay with him. So, what you have to do is to stay in position 5-6 till 2600m, after you overtake who his behind El Guerrouj, so when Biwott stops his work, Hicham can have you with him and, of course, goes to reduce the pace in the 4th km. After this, you need to make fright in his mind, so try to go on his side, look at him, and after goes behind him again".

Stephen was a magic actor : after 4300m he went on the side of Hicham, looked at him and laughed.... and psychologically Hicham lost the race ! But that Stephen Cherono was very much weaker than the Shaheen on 2006, so we can say he never had the opportunity to go near his potential limits in the event (the split was REALLY 7'37").

But speaking about the way to evaluate the possibility of the athletes, I want to say something probably you don't agree completely, may be partially.

In the career of an athlete we have the possibility to evaluate some event AT THE MOMENT, and in this case we can have an idea of what the athlete can do.

This can involve only the events DIRECTLY connected with the event we are speaking about. If we want to see the possibilities, for example, of an athlete in 5000m, we must look at a range between 1500m and 10000m. If we want to understand how much he can run in 1500m, we can look at 800m and 3000/5000m. And, if we want to see about 10000m, we need to look at 5000/HM.

Instead, to put in a calculator something as 400m (apart the fact in the most part of cases also coaches don't know the exact possibility of the athlete) can be interesting LOOKING AT THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FULL CAREER.

For example, if we have an athlete running 800 and 1500m, with PB of 1'48" and 3'34", when we see his speed in 400m can be about 51", immediately we understand he can become a top specialist in 5000m (may be working for 3 years in that direction) and, may be, 10000m after 5 years.

Not only, but we have to think the qualities an athlete needs for running 400m are not only connected with the bioenergetic system, but also with the mechanical system.

Instead, top speed is more connected with the nervous system.

For example, speaking about Nicholas Kemboi, he had the same reactive ability of a printer, with incredible "frequency endurance" (in other words, he was not tired running with very short strides at high frequency). This can be considered as the quality of Froome on the bike in Tour de France.

At the same time, the lack of muscle strength didn't allow him running fast for short time (for example, 400m), but his unbelievable aerobic power, and the relaxation at slower speed, allowed him to last long time with only little decrement of his speed.

That's the reason because, for example, starting from the same time in 10000m and in 400m, we can't have in the middle the same results with two different athletes.

And not forget that, in many cases, we can know ONLY the real value in one event.

For example, while Wilson Kipketer could absolutely become a runner under 3'30" in 1500m, because of his morphology, his running technique and his aerobic attitude (in St. Moritz he ran several times 2 hours in the forrest, when was in top shape for running 800m...), Rudisha NEVER can run so fast something longer than 800m (we can accept the max distance can be 1000m). Of course he can run 1500m in 3'35", but this doesn't mean anything in front of the all time star of 800m.

But when we go to analyse the hypothetical performances athletes can do, looking at 3 events only, I think the calculator can work very well. And, because in any case we look at the possibilities in the same period (speaking not about the past, but about the present ; when we speak about Ryun or Snell this is a theorical exercises, when we speak about an athlete of today this is an advice for the present), I think this is the best way to use your calculator.

i understand you saying kemboi didn't have the muscle build to run a very fast 400, but he still went 51.5 with what he had !!!

wilfred bungei had the ugliest cadence i've ever seen in a 800 guy, but "what he had" got him a 1'42.3 & a gold !

kemboi's "what he had" woud be exactly the same he wouda brought to the other events combined with superb endurance

51.5 speed ( even if he's not a proper sprinter ) is not enough for you know to think he couda gone 3'31+ ( now knowing mo's 3'28 ) at his peak ( or well below 12'45 ) considering he probably had 10s better 10k ability than mo ( maybe 26'20 v 26'30 )

remember, mo's 400 speed is likely no better than 50-flat

ventolin^3 wrote:

remember, mo's 400 speed is likely no better than 50-flat

I bet he could break 50.

Renato Canova wrote:

top speed is more connected with the nervous system.

For example, speaking about Nicholas Kemboi, he had the same reactive ability of a printer, with incredible "frequency endurance" (in other words, he was not tired running with very short strides at high frequency). This can be considered as the quality of Froome on the bike in Tour de France.

How can this high frequency endurance be developed, simply with practice? Shaheen has a very fast light stride too, and carries his arms very high.

Komen's 3000 WR

If Komen had been completely fresh for his WR 3000m (he ran a subpar 5000m two days prior in Zurich), what would have been his time?

7:17-18, I guess

Hi Renato.

Are you the coach of Edwin soi, Albert Rop and Thomas Longosiwa? If yes what is their training like?

Renato Canova wrote:

The relaxation during running is the best attitude of Mo Farah, who, under this point of view, is better than Asbel Kiprop, too.

So awesome that you post here, thanks Renato! The way you tie your thoughts together is fascinating, maybe that is partially due to English not being your first language, but it's a real bonus.

I'm glad you pointed out that one of Mo's finest characteristics is his relaxation. Until he is at his absolute maximum he really looks like he is just loping. It's very distinctly different from his competitors that appear to have dramatically more muscle tension, even in the passive phase of their stride.

Thank you sir Renato for all your words of wisdom. We appreciate you and respect you.

Ryan Freeman Portland OR 97206

rfreeman86@hotmail.com

971-506-2847

Ok for Edwin and Thomas, instead I don't have anything to do with Albert Rop.

Edwin had problems last year, after being by far better than Thomas during the training camp before OG. He went London with bronchitis, and was not able to qualify....

Thomas and Edwin followed completely, also in the training camp, my program, due also to their strong personality, because they were asked to follow the program of the head coach, Julius Kirwa. At the end, all the group of 1500m and 10000m followed his programs, while Rudisha and Kitum followed the program of Brother Colm, Ezekiel Kemboi the program of Moses Kiptanui, and Edwin and Thomas my program...

This year Edwin increased, during winter, his endurance, not having any activity (indoor or cross), and finally had the opportunity to rebuild completely his aerobic power.

People don't know in the High School he was a sprinter... running 200m ! And this is why, when he is ok under the aerobic point of view, he can be very good in the final kick.

Thomas had some small problem before Monaco, we try to solve these.

I hope they can go Moscow at the top of their shape, also if at the moment I'm in Italy for a small surgery, so I can't follow directly their preparation before WCh.

killarney wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Also, I don't understand how a runner does 12.9 for 100m in any cirumstance but a gale and can run 3:28

He was clocked at 11.3 in a flying 100 as part of a workout two years ago (Galen was 10.9).

Those supposed times are speculation. No visual evidence. We have the evidence of Mo only managing 12.9 from blocks. Doesn't matter if it was out of season, an athlete's natural speed doesn't disappear that quickly. Someone who can run 11.3 as part of a session for a flying 100, should be able to get within 1 sec of that in a one off race from blocks.

LM wrote:

Why the fvck do people still think someone had to do it and ventolin are the same? This amazes me...

just because one likes to imitate the other some doesn't mean they are the same poster, and when you consider all the content and comments...it's pretty clear.

Well done Ventolin! That is really going to confuse posters and believe that you are not the same person. HaHa

I agree entirely. Thanks for pointing out.

It is a valuable "rough" guide when actual performances in neighbouring events are put in, but all this extrapolating possible 400 times based on 800 or how they performed against other athletes whose 400 times we know, and then using made up 400 ability to justify 5000 predictions, is absolute nonsense.

Renato, best wishes for your small surgery. Recover soon.

Thanks Renato for your thoughts. If Kiprop would have run 53 last lap he would have probably come closer to the world record. How can athletes run a sub 3.26 in 1500m?

ukathleticscoach wrote:

I don't understand how a runner does 12.9 for 100m in any cirumstance but a gale and can run 3:28

That's because you are a crap coach who doesn't understand distance running and spends too much time here posting shite without learning from other posters who know much more than you do.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

I don't understand how a runner does 12.9 for 100m in any cirumstance but a gale and can run 3:28

[/quote]

Average 13.9.

Come Undone wrote:but all this extrapolating possible 400 times based on 800 or how they performed against other athletes whose 400 times we know, and then using made up 400 ability to justify 5000 predictions, is absolute nonsense.

clueless

we got a pretty damn good idea of mo's 400 ability from his 50.89 lap

that was the main info needed to predict a possible 3'28