Jordan Hasay 10k - did she not make it??

Based on what? When has he ever coached a ruff?

At the risk of over-explaining, "ruff" was a play on words with Rupp/Rough, as in "diamond in the rough". Rupp started as soccer player, AlSal picked him *very* early based on some 200m repeats. Rupp was highly untrained/unpolished but AlSal stuck with him and the results speak for themselves. Similarly with Cain, he grabbed her early before she had a solid professional training system. AlSal will be the first to admit (and already has) that Cain's success is largely her innate talent, but that's besides the point. The point was that AlSal knows talent early and he has definitely coached a "ruff" i.e. young/training-limited athlete.

What's the big deal wrote:

Based on what? When has he ever coached a ruff?

At the risk of over-explaining, "ruff" was a play on words with Rupp/Rough, as in "diamond in the rough". Rupp started as soccer player, AlSal picked him *very* early based on some 200m repeats. Rupp was highly untrained/unpolished but AlSal stuck with him and the results speak for themselves. Similarly with Cain, he grabbed her early before she had a solid professional training system. AlSal will be the first to admit (and already has) that Cain's success is largely her innate talent, but that's besides the point. The point was that AlSal knows talent early and he has definitely coached a "ruff" i.e. young/training-limited athlete.

Cain was already fast and improving. Rupp, sure I'll give you that one.

Cain was already fast and improving. Rupp, sure I'll give you that one.

Yes Cain was already fast, but still lacking in focused training, and...why didn't anyone else snap her up?

Treniere Moser is another example of someone with raw talent but had a tough stretch in her career. Not exactly "rough/unpolished", but certainly discarded for forgotten by many, so perhaps a lost diamond.

whatthewhatthewhat wrote:

Seriously one of the dumbest things I've read on here that I can't decide if you're trolling or not. Before Cain, she was the fastest HS miler and a very top 2mile runner with two Footlocker records. She's been top 3 at NCAA XCountry Champs for three years, has a couple of NCAA track titles, and is usually a very top performer.

She might not be winning every single race but she's always in the mis. If you can't see why people were always 'so hot on Hasay' then you're an idiot.

She's Sara Hall all over again- West coast softy with a stellar high school career and always in the mix in college, but not good enough to make it as a pro. Not every race at the pro level is "pristine California", and certainly not on the roads (if she pursues the long distances). Gotta have the Joan Benoit-Samuelson/Deena Kastor mental toughness to endure whatever is thrown at you.

wont cut the mustard wrote:

She's Sara Hall all over again- West coast softy with a stellar high school career and always in the mix in college, but not good enough to make it as a pro. Not every race at the pro level is "pristine California", and certainly not on the roads (if she pursues the long distances). Gotta have the Joan Benoit-Samuelson/Deena Kastor mental toughness to endure whatever is thrown at you.

I was a huge Sara Hall fan growing up but she was nowhere near as consistent and dominant as Hasay in college. It's just that Hasay is so well-known, every time she takes a crap it's publicized all over the web.

Before Cain, she was the fastest HS miler and a very top 2mile runner with two Footlocker records. She's been top 3 at NCAA XCountry Champs for three years, has a couple of NCAA track titles, and is usually a very top performer.

She might not be winning every single race but she's always in the mis. If you can't see why people were always 'so hot on Hasay' then you're an idiot.

This is LetsRun, I can't believe you haven't read dumber posts, otherwise, i'm honored! My original reply was to someone who made a similar point to mine (unable to consistently close), so there's two dummies here I guess,

not to mention

Anyways, all trolling aside, I don't think she's a bad runner, just the headlines about her always outshine her performances as shown in her 10k results. Btw she's quite small/light, and heat has *less* affect due to greater surface area->mass. You are correct, she had a very hot HS career, but she no longer dominates as she did in HS. Top 3 in XC is impressive, but she's not dominating like say Lynn Jennings did.

Pretend for a moment you never heard of her until the last two years or so, maybe she moved from another country or something. She would be good yes, but would she be so popular/highly-touted? In otherwords the other issue is her lack of progress. She's been running forever, highly competitive since at least age 9, set many HS records, but she's now 4 months shy of turning 22 and her 1500m PB is only 4:10 and 5000m PB is 15:37, and I think those are from 2011 or am I wrong? T. Dibaba ran 14:30 by age 19, which would almost have lapped Hasay. Faith Kipyegon ran 3:56.98 by age 18 this year already.

I would be hot on her if she was some sort of threat internationally, or at least consistently dominant on a national level, but neither of these is true. Who knows, maybe she'll eventually prove me wrong in the 10k, but to paraphrase T Noakes from the Lore of Running, the best 10k runners were the best 5k runners, who were once the best 3000m/1500m runners, and she just doesn't seem to have the wheels to keep up the last 400/800. It remains to be seen if this can be trained into her, but the data over the last 2 years does not support this. Maybe the marathon will work for her small light frame.

Wheels at the end of a race aren't a requirement to be successful. You can instead push the pace.

hgvthv wrote:

Wheels at the end of a race aren't a requirement to be successful. You can instead push the pace.

Agreed, Hagos Gebrhiwet demonstrated this today, pushing the pace early in the 5000m in NY. He quickly opened up a huge lead and completely dominated the race. Even though True/Leilan/Chepkok prob closed faster, Hagos was so far ahead it was not an issue. Hagos is almost 3 yrs younger than Hasay, and I haven't seen her dominate like Hagos did today since she was in HS.

Ok, i'm starting to sound like a broken record here. And for sure Hasay is much more under the media microscope than most young runners (which has tainted my views), she has handled the media pressure well. I'm going to backtrack a bit and wait till the Rio trials before passing judgement (not that anyone cares), maybe she just had a sub-par last two yrs and/or college adjustment issues. If by Rio she can't run in the 31s or at least 32-low with decent consistency during yearly peak periods, then it's time to change something: coach or distance.

It will be winter in Brazil.

looking ahead wrote:

Heat Index during 1500 heats-92

during 10000m-88

What will it be like in Brazil in 2016?

They'll be the Young Turks in '16

wont cut the mustard wrote:

She's Sara Hall all over again- West coast softy with a stellar high school career and always in the mix in college, but not good enough to make it as a pro. Not every race at the pro level is "pristine California", and certainly not on the roads (if she pursues the long distances). Gotta have the Joan Benoit-Samuelson/Deena Kastor mental toughness to endure whatever is thrown at you.

Yeah, it's not like Deena Kastor is from southern California or anything.

California Girls wrote:

Yeah, it's not like Deena Kastor is from southern California or anything.

Yes, that's the point- mentally tough as nails. Cut her hair, wore a hat, sunglasses, and trained in sweats at high altitude to prepare for Athens. Jordan needs to cut her hair if she wants to be a long distance runner.

wont cut the mustard wrote:

California Girls wrote:

Yeah, it's not like Deena Kastor is from southern California or anything.

Yes, that's the point- mentally tough as nails. Cut her hair, wore a hat, sunglasses, and trained in sweats at high altitude to prepare for Athens. Jordan needs to cut her hair if she wants to be a long distance runner.

Hair has nothing to do with performance.

break it up wrote:

Oregon runners are notorious for running bad in warm weather in the spring.

My senior year I recall them qualifying 3 runners in the 10k in a meet in Eugene (Fonseca, Hudson, someone else) then all placing near dead last at nationals in Durham.

Salazar used to prepare for this stuff by riding an excercise bike in the sauna. Before having to run NCAA's in Baton Rouge.

It was Bill McChesney that did this. Salazar might have, but I never saw it or heard of him doing it. McChesney doing it became kind of "famous," because everyone thought he was nuts for dragging the exerbike into the sauna. But then he was the only one to do decent in the heat at NCAA's. If memory serves, he had a bad experience in Juniors, and thought of the sauna training idea as a way to prep himself for hot weather running.

Track and Field news then wrote a short bit on it.

My bet is that Salazar remembered that (he was possibly graduated by the time Billy did this) and then advised Rupp to train on his treadmill with high temps in his apt.

ksaoo wrote:

Hair has nothing to do with performance.

Says a man who doesn't have hair down to his butt.

pac12running wrote:

When Oregon's fans (or press releases) give excuses, it's annoying. As if Oregon runners are SOOOOOO special they can't just have a bad day, get psyched out, be under-prepared, or--the horror--just not be good enough. No, there has to some outside factor. With all the running history and resources the Ducks have, they had to have anticipated heat in Texas in May. And yes, it was hot for everyone--not just Jordan. So if she couldn't handle it, then SHE wasn't one of the best runners that day. Now, it's true some people handle heat worse than others, but the ability to handle atmospheric factors is one of the many qualities that make talent and contribute to being a champion.

As for Saina, she doesn't get nearly enough love on here.

Saina is what, almost 26????? Give us a break.

I wish I could have competed against high school kids when I was 22.

Saina is at her physical peak, none of the 22 and unders are.

The NCAA management and regulations for TF are a mess.

A Duck wrote:

It was Bill McChesney that did this. Salazar might have, but I never saw it or heard of him doing it. McChesney doing it became kind of "famous," because everyone thought he was nuts for dragging the exerbike into the sauna. But then he was the only one to do decent in the heat at NCAA's. If memory serves, he had a bad experience in Juniors, and thought of the sauna training idea as a way to prep himself for hot weather running.

Track and Field news then wrote a short bit on it.

My bet is that Salazar remembered that (he was possibly graduated by the time Billy did this) and then advised Rupp to train on his treadmill with high temps in his apt.

Apparently T&FN had forgotten that Ron Daws was doing this stuff years before to prepare for hot weather races.

I think the problem is more where you are coming from. If you come from Eugene, OR where the temp. barely gets above 60 then you will face some problems going to a humid/hot environment especially for a 10k. Adapting to heat takes time and it is much harder for the athletes that came from cooler climates. Even just a little bit of an electrolyte imbalance could make you feel off.

A Duck wrote:

Saina is what, almost 26????? Give us a break.

I wish I could have competed against high school kids when I was 22.

Saina is at her physical peak, none of the 22 and unders are.

The NCAA management and regulations for TF are a mess.

She's 24. Nice try tough guy.

well she acclimated and won the second heat of the 5000 over saina.