Joe Newton dealing with parents

Runner85 wrote:

Maybe i'm being naive, but if kids think they can skip practice multiple times, then you didn't do a good job of communicating what is to be expected from them. This also goes for the parents. The older kids should also be communicating what is expected with the younger runners. I fail to see a problem. If kids skip too many times then they can do something else. If parents complain then they complain. There has to be some standards on a team so the kids who want to take it seriously don't have negative factors around them.

I think the problem is that the administration prevents cuts like that. Plus it creates a bad atmosphere if kids are upset their friends got cut for missing practices. Also on a small team, there is not much the coach can do because if more than one or two runners are lost, the team will be incomplete. I know in hs, we never had more than 9 guys in any one season. The coach grew that team from 3 guys my first year. This was at a school of 600ish students,but for some reason even though the team was good and the coach was good, ppl couldn't get that running wasn't a form of torture.

cisco wrote:

Because you'd rather be the "star" on the Xc team as opposed to the star on the football team? get real with yourself dude.

Ahuh, I'd rather be a good runner, than a star fat pig on a team of fat pigs. Only fat pigs would choose what they do.

Of course runners are going to choose being runners.

another thing you can do. Have kids who miss practice do the workout on their own at home. This will mitigate the effects of missing practice if the kids are really serious. Then the serious ones who have some sort of bs extraciricular that interferes can still contribute to the team.

exactly, the slackers run only dual meets. Those putting in dedication, run at major invitationals, championships, etc.

cisco wrote:

"In all honesty, despite supposedly being one of the most participated sports in the country I don't find that many kids, even the good ones, have a lot of interest in cross country/distance running."

Nobody grows up wanting to be a distance runner. It's something forced on you do to circumstances. Those circumstance are usually that you are too small, skinny, or just generally bad at all other athletic endeavors.

lots of people grow up wanting to be distance runners. I know plenty of kids who started running for fun before they even hit middle school. There are always little kids at road races competing. A lot of these kids stick with the sport for their entire school careers. In the 70s and 80s kids got inspired to take up running because of Bill Rodgers, Frank Shorter, Steve Pre, etc. Kids still take up running after watching the ny, boston marathon, the olympics, etc. on tv.

cisco wrote:

Concerned Citizen wrote:

Dude, just because you're a total p*ssy doesn't mean you need to hate on other runners.

Because you'd rather be the "star" on the Xc team as opposed to the star on the football team? get real with yourself dude.

cisco why are you here if this is your attitude? Are you still lamenting getting cut from the quarterback position 5 years later? At that time the only sport who's roster wasn't full was xc? Get over it. There are places that pretend to cover sports for people like you, like espn. Leave, go talk to the other guys who wish they made wide receiver. Maybe you'll even find some benchwarmers and some obese kids who played line. They're "athletes" though even though their bmi is over 30, because they got a spot on the hs football team, right...

You could purchase a pet alligator. Feed the runners who miss practice more than once to him. You wouldn't have to worry about anyone coming back to the team after they miss.

I think a big problem is that misguided parents, teachers and guidance counselors tell these kids that they need to "diversify" their high school resume and become well-rounded. Kids naturally follow the advice.

However, the advice is bullcrap.

Colleges, at least academically competitive ones, want excellence. Most college admission essays ask the applicant what the student can bring to the college. They would readily accept a 4:15 miler over the president of the Glee Club and the National Honors Society. And most likely, if you try to do all the special clubs and the superficial academic crap, you won't be that succesful in the varsity sport of your choice.

I also remember seeing a video interview with coach Mark Wetmore. He emphasized that his advice to high school students was to be "lopsided" as opposed to being well-rounded.

2 Unexcused Miss Practices - Kicked off the team

2 Unexcused Tardies - Kicked off the team

The challenge isn't in this policy. The challenge is the definition of "EXCUSED". Unfortunately, for some programs it is common to have various meetings with teachers, makeup tests, college meetings, music, family trips... that can all be interpreted as excused or unexcused. In small programs, you try to be reasonable but not track seems to slide down the list of priorities fairly quickly.

I'm a product of a very successful high school program in Colorado. In the small school division, my school won 15 or so boys state titles between 1968 and 1995, and nearly that number for girls between 1979 (when girls team championships were first started) and 1995. There were 3 coaches over that period-I ran for Coach A as a sophomore, and Coach B as a Junior and Senior. Coach C was my Junior High coach. The three had different methods and programs-but the unifying factor was fun. Sadly the program has slipped since Coach C left.

In the years I ran, our program was an amalgamation of misfits and intellectuals. From what I know of other runners, that's not unusual. The coaches at my school were tough-but they made it fun. I loved cross-country probably more for the social aspect than for the competition. The coaches made it so we wanted to come to practice. I think a coed environment helped too. How was practice fun? We'd warmup and stretch, and spend 15 minutes BSing. We'd run our workouts-hard days were hard, easy days could be a fartlek in the woods that would often turn into a pinecone fight. The coaches did not explicitly endorse the screwing around, but they largely let it happen on the easy days. On the hard days, we'd run our 8 mile tempos or 16 quarters and trip over our tongues. After dinner a few nights a week, the bulk of the team would meet at the pool and sit in a hot tub. On Saturday mornings (after Friday afternoon/evening meets) we'd meet up for a long run, and then have a donut/juice buffet. The team was the center of our social and school life-we were like the Marine Corps.

How was this program built? Winning certainly helped-but getting numbers out helps too. The IB program is a perfect place to find bodies who've not been swallowed by the Football/Basketball/Soccer industrial complex. Embrace the dilution of your team. Find a place for everyone-and make it a welcoming environment. I guarantee you, there is some IB student lurking who doesn't think he's an athlete but will be able to run 16 minutes his first season on essentially pure, untapped talent. There's also probably some C/D student with similar talent who hates school-and comes out for the team to escape an unhappy homelife. Your job is to keep them both engaged enough to get enough fitness to become successful. With any luck, maybe the two kids will become friends. Make practice more fun than the IB BS the honor students are tempted with. Make it an escape from the boors at National Honor Society. If they are just there for a varsity letter, set up some rules-no race if you miss practice, complete 6 or 8 races (or whatever) to get a letter. In terms of dismissing someone from the top 7-just run your top 7 based on a time trial at the start of the season-and then week by week, top 7 times run top 7 next week. That's why they have B and C races. If they're in IB-they understand high standards-set the high standards and stick with them. But make it fun, and 5 years from now, you'll be getting people quitting football to join xc, cause that's where the cool kids are. When that happens, success on the course will follow.

I ran for The Woodlands High School in Texas. I know Coach Green is friends with Mr. Newton and a lot of theory policies mirror each other. Don't be late, ever. Coach talks for 5 to 45 minutes about the days workout, upcoming races, progression through the season, etc. No girlfriends, no earrings, no wild hair cuts or any bleach, no wild clothing, hair doesn't come past your eyes or over your ears. We were not allowed to play other sports, have a job, or do anything that could take away from our 2 a day practices. Ice baths were mandatory. The parents knew coaches rules. If u didn't like it, u quit the team and did not associate with anyone still on the team. Discipline was everything. I remember a kid getting his butt chewed for coming back from the weekend as red as a tomato from a sun burn. Anything that takes away from becoming a better student athlete was strictly forbidden. And I wouldn't have had it any other way. I feel bad for my buddies that are now coches and have no control because the parents dictate how the coaches run their teams. Unfortunately if u don't have the numbers u can't run kids off with strict rules. Schools like York and the woodlands have plenty of numbers. I believe a few years ago the woodlands had to even have tryouts because they had too many kids .......that's a problem I'm sure most high school coaches don't have.

I apologize for the typos. Only have phone to access internet at the moment.

Wow. I had a great high school coach. He had a run once of three state titles. He was never this extreme. I'm sure if he had been, my teams would have won state.

Kids these days work jobs to pay for all the bullshit that is seemingly necessary to keep up in this world. Newton and Greene could only get away with running a program like that after many years of success. Then the parents will never question, like they supported Ritzenhein's coach at Rockford HS in Michigan for getting fired for handing out sudefed.

These are extreme cases and as a coach of a small team that has grown from 20 (boys and girls) to more than 100 it is difficult. I think the most important is to get the kids to buy in. We stress that when you miss, you hurt the team more than yourself. Our kids don't miss because of the team environment, they don't want to let anyone down.

We have our problems, and kids who ar rout to lose weight and for social reasons. We believe everyone has a role and can contribute from top to bottom. You can't contribute when you are not there.

We have many kids who are over involved, that's a part of our community in Silicon Valley. We work with it as best as possible. We are willing to shift. Practice to 6 am on science fair days or for AP Chem labs. We are in this together and as long as you show commitment, we as a coaching staff will show flexibility.

But we are a small school and in general have a committed student body. It took 4 years to change the culture and we are still growing but there are other ways. To promote dedication besides being a hard ass.

It seems like Joe Newton has perfected both.

I'm glad to read the clarification of Newton's policy.

You have to have rules, but you must be reasonable and always keep an eye on what your real intention is.

If you kick a kid off the team for a small infraction, what are you teaching him? Are you really "helping" him or just making him into a bitter kid with nothing to do after school?

I dont want to sound like a bleeding heart, but it's the role of the adult to make adult decisions, not just hack and slice all in the name of "teaching them a lesson".

Dude, just because you're a total p*ssy doesn't mean you need to hate on other runners.[/quote]

Because you'd rather be the "star" on the Xc team as opposed to the star on the football team? get real with yourself dude.[/quote]cisco why are you here if this is your attitude? Are you still lamenting getting cut from the quarterback position 5 years later? At that time the only sport who's roster wasn't full was xc? Get over it. There are places that pretend to cover sports for people like you, like espn. Leave, go talk to the other guys who wish they made wide receiver. Maybe you'll even find some benchwarmers and some obese kids who played line. They're "athletes" though even though their bmi is over 30, because they got a spot on the hs football team, right...[/quote]

Ive been a runner a LOOONG time, but I can't believe any of you wouldn't trade your running ability for equal ability in one of the mainstream sports. I think there's a lot of denial going on here.

Funny thing is the first line of defense is "oh yea well better to be a XC runner than a fat benchwarmer on the football team!!" Well, yeah duh!.. that's not what I was saying at all. I'm saying that most distance runners would rather be a star football player than a star runner AND that if they had ability in another sport, they'd do that over long distance running.

Another important factor about York and Mr. Newton, maybe the most important, is the "check in" process everyday.

At York, you have to "check in" at each practice. Mr. Newton sits at a desk and one of his managers has a book with the names of every person on the team. As you arrive at practice, you tell the manager your name and he marks you in. This happens everyday, so Mr. Newton can see who is and who is not there.

Also, before practice is over, you have to "check out" with Mr. Newton. This is either done with a handshake or elbow tap to Mr. Newton. Mr. Newton has an amazing memory and remembers everything.

I think these policies are great. Even Spring Break. I never went on a Spring Break at York because I couldn't miss practice, but I didn't want to.

I never liked many of those aspects of the Newton philosophy and there are plenty of successful programs that aren't so strict.

That said, you have to respect what they (York and Woodlands) have done and the coaches know their stuff when it comes to running.

What do you do when the coach just doesn't get it for training and long-term development? Freaks out when someone runs more than 45 miles a week, even during base phase, or schedules a hard set of 400s two days before a big meet, or the opposite tapers 3 days before a meaningless early season triangular meet. Do you always defer to those coaches, no matter what because they are the ones in authority?

I'm going to disagree with a lot of people here.

I have been a head coach for six years. My teams have won 3 state championships, so I have a successful program.

Our roster is 150 between boys and girls, which is pretty good for a school of 1700. On any given day, about 85-90% of the athletes will come to practice. I don't kick any of them off the team. They know the expectations. If they miss practices, they miss meets.

High school coaches need to be realistic, especially when it comes to a no-cut sport like track or cross country (they are no-cut sports at my school). Many of the kids are a part of the team because they want to be a part of something. They have never been in athletics. They aren't very talented. They want to go out and have fun and get better at something. But they also have jobs, family, homework, etc.

High school coaches should get over themselves and stop pretending they are the most important thing in the world and that it is a personal insult if someone misses practice without a doctor's note. High school coaches should be accommodating and forgiving.

I don't chew out kids. I have discussions with kids. Occasionally I will joke with them that I am going to start being meaner and yelling a lot more. They tell me that part of the reason they are so dedicated (yes, most of them are very dedicated even though I don't lay the hammer down or yell my way or the highway at them) is because I treat them with respect.

I will do anything to help these kids succeed. The ones who skip practice won't get as much attention from me. I am fair.

That's my opinion on the issue. Would it be nice to cut and only have 25 kids who come to practice every day? Sometimes. But it wouldn't be as fun or rewarding, and you'd miss out on a lot of developing talent.