Cam Levins - 11.5 100m standing start

Karma Police wrote:

800m Coach wrote:

...it's not your 100m speed that makes you a good kicker.

It's not?

What is it then? Give two people the same training, and guess who will outkick the other at the end.

Your question is a subsetted scenario of his statement. He is correct. The fastest sprinter doesn't win. The person with the highest energy at the end will have the better kick.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I'll tell you what I would love: if one of these high-level distance guys (which is what I assume Levins is) would actually go out and do it, and bust out a really fast time, that I would not otherwise believe possible, and about which there would be nothing equivocal--full FAT from blocks with wind gauge all operated by qualified personnel somewhere other than Clermont, Rieti, or Eugene, preferably more than once. The only way possible to tell accuracy is if there is more than one result available.

You're not going to get that (FAT with blocks), and even if you did, it wouldn't tell you a lot. Those guys do not have or practice block technique, and just looking at guys like Rupp and Farah would tell you that they don't have the strength levels to use blocks effectively. True distance runners are normally faster from standing because they don't have sprinter starting skills.

I wouldn't be that hard to time them with Brower or Freelap. If you like flying starts, ok, do a flying 60, and there are USATF Level II charts that will tell you what that's worth (I have them). But if Salazar did that--honestly--he wouldn't be able to make these bogus claims any more.

Frankly, after the 12.9, I don't know why distance runners and fans keep making these sprinting claims. Face reality: These guys are not fast. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE DISTANCE RUNNERS. They can't do 11-point from any kind of start. I doubt hey can do 12.0 either. And there are plenty of high school girls that can make them look pretty silly if they want to claim they can sprint.

Probably because Mo wasn't trying. That seems to be very a difficult concept for people to grasp on this forum; that being not giving 100% during a race. Mo's 100M wasn't even a real race, it was some stupid TV/entertainment/media buzz. Up that. Mo could do sub 12 no problem. Probably 11.5.

what's with the condescending tone bro?

Sorry man, didn't mean it.

Sometimes I come across as a real a-hole, especially when I post at 10pm instead of going to bed.

t94bell--

Not even remotely convincing.

0/10

Yes, I know they don't have the power to use blocks effectively. I included it only for standardization, because there are false-start sensors in blocks.

I love the claims...11.5 from a STANDING START, in trainers! Absolutely classic.

It does make me wonder, though, what a 10-flat full FAT would be worth, from a standing start (not a 3-point stance).

A sprinter doing a standing start would still be infinitely better than a distance runner standing start, however. I wonder what Mo's 12.98 would have been from a standing start? There is no way that it would have been faster, he was actually pretty decent out of the blocks. I'd give it maybe a 13.2-13.3

Hey d, what sprinters should we be watching for at Mt. Sac?

And what about Warren Weir? Did you see his turn? WOW.

Heat sheets aren't out yet (late tonight), but this iw what I know--

If you have a long lens on your camera, both Barber sisters are doing 100.

I know for sure that Ryan Bailey and Carmelita Jeter are doing the 100. Ginny Crawford doing the 100m dash. Mike Rodgers in the 100m (presumably without Jack3d).

Aaron Brown of USC (and Canada Olympic Team) doing both the 100 and 200. English Gardner of Oregon also doing both sprints.

Allyson Felix normally runs on a 4X4 here, but right now there are no Bob Kersee All Stars entries.

Samuel Francis, a name you might remember from a couple of years ago.

Lashinda Demus doing the 400m (dash) AND the 800m

Bryshon Nellum doing 200 and 400

Also seem to be a LOT of Japanese university sprinters here this year.

Also, the Bryan Clay Invitational the day before Mt. Sac elite day is also often interesting. The Brits have a camp for sprinters in LA, and they often come here. They race as club "Team England".

Heat Sheets just got posted. These are the M&W invit 100m:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Yes, I know they don't have the power to use blocks effectively. I included it only for standardization, because there are false-start sensors in blocks.

I love the claims...11.5 from a STANDING START, in trainers! Absolutely classic.

It does make me wonder, though, what a 10-flat full FAT would be worth, from a standing start (not a 3-point stance).

A sprinter doing a standing start would still be infinitely better than a distance runner standing start, however. I wonder what Mo's 12.98 would have been from a standing start? There is no way that it would have been faster, he was actually pretty decent out of the blocks. I'd give it maybe a 13.2-13.3

thanks for your thoughts. what is a good way to start as a distance runner if you dont want to learn the blocks? just stand there and f-ing go?

how would you measure a flying start anyway? just do a two step run in and go?

curious we should have an all distance runners 100m

BULLSHIT!!

I am a sprinter and stuff like this makes me laugh.

oh yeah, hand timed eh? by your coach? in practice?

My best time FAT with legal wind was 10.79 and I ran 10.3H and 10.4H in legit track meets. hand times are BS. especially in practice. and to boot by distance coaches.

Oh I was also hand timed multiple times by our head coach (distance coach) who would always be like "you just ran 10.5!!" and it was like 11.23 or something.

dollars to donuts that is about a second off if you were to take FAT, legal wind, in a track meet.

again....BULLSHIT!!!!!

I was doing 60m flys today (racing this weekend): 20m accel leadin, 10m transition (coming up), so starting at 10m point and fly for the last 60. John Smith does these with a 20m accel leadin.

For 30m flys (harder to time), people use 25-50m accel leadin (depends on how long you can accelerate, then maintain speed). Tyson Gay used to use 45m with Lance Brauman. Difficult to get accurate timing unless you have something like Brower or Freelap (I have Freelap).

Distance runners are not going to be able to accel as long, but 2-steps is NOT how to time these.

sprinter dude 55--

What you said. You would not believe some of my practice hand times from people who weren't sprint coaches! That kind of thing gets you pumped when you're in HS, but you quickly learn to discount them after you've got a couple of meet results.

Lets--

A good way to start might be a 3-point stance. Better than a standing start, and more forgiving than blocks. Actual position can be adjusted to suit your taste.

Without electronic/optical/optoelectronic timing devices, measuring flying-start stuff accurately is essentially impossible.

If it's done over a longer distance you won't have anywhere near an accurate read at either the exact start, finish, or both, depending on your position.

If it's done over a shorter distance at higher speed, there is more room for error due to the increased difficulty in judging position at higher speed.

Electronic tools can help, but must be set up and used correctly. More than being accurate, they can be repeatable if used consistently, and if baselines are developed.

Disclaimer for the rest of this post: I know nothing about distance training or distance race strategy training.

If it were me measuring distance runners doing 100's, first of all there is no way I would do it from zero velocity. Totally irrelevant to distance racing. So, I would do it at speed.

I would probably simulate race conditions somewhat. I would have them run 100m or 200m at what they consider fast race speed; have them run by an automatic start with maybe 120m or 130m to go, and tell them not to start "sprinting" until there is only 100m left.

I would then set up one end timer at the finish, and another maybe another 20m-30m down the track.

I would take as a measurement the time for the first 120-130m, which would include 20-30m of their fast race speed--which should be consistent, so it would be the same in all of the measurements and wouldn't matter. Those first 20-30m would be used to ensure that acceleration from the very first instant the sprint is started is captured.

What I would actually do would be to time segments over 400m. I would have them accelerate to fast race speed for, say, 20m before crossing the start line, and run varying profiles around 400m, and set up timers at various locations of interest. I think that the possible profiles of the last 400 of these races is of much more interest than, say, a flying 100 capability.

But again, I know nothing about this sort of distance training.

I ran 10x 100m in 11.8 with a standing start in less than an hour, so I don't doubt at all that Levins and Rupp can run at least as fast.

A long time ago I ran a 220 in a race with Phil Ryan, was flat out all the way and we both ran 23.3 or 23.5. I'm pretty sure Levins and Rupp would have no trouble with that.

Karma Police wrote:

800m Coach wrote:

...it's not your 100m speed that makes you a good kicker.

It's not?

What is it then? Give two people the same training, and guess who will outkick the other at the end.

Bekele would most definitely outkick Bolt.

you cannot compare Mo Farah to Galen Rupp from a sprint standpoint just because they are both distance runners

Galen is clearly much faster

Sub 11? no.

But sub 12?, definitely

Galen out of the blocks in spikes (with a good start for him) in good conditions my guess is 11.6 FAT or so

Galen out of the blocks in spikes (with a good start for him) in good conditions my guess is 11.6 FAT or so

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, wait...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**********************

Regarding a standing start, those guys might want to learn how to do one properly, including Mo:

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Galen+Rupp/13th+IAAF+World+Athletics+Championships+Daegu/dMRar2DinIh

LOL, it hurts.