In what year do you believe the first sub 4 minute mile was run by a human

Norweigian academic Thor Gootas has it to be that indian who did it twice in 1876 under US military controlled conditions, but since he wasn't a white man (important at the time) he never got credit for it in the records or history books.

Speaking of books, Gootas is a surprisingly good author and his own book has now been translated to English:

http://www.amazon.com/Running-Global-History-Thor-Gotaas/dp/1861899130

Besides what you're fishing for; i.e., caveman, etc. My question is: Does anyone know what THE fastest mile (male and female) is... in ALL conditions?

Aren't there some downhill mile races where guys run in the 3:30's.....?

Probably the doctor who delivered the fugliness of Joy Behar. I'm sure he ran screaming from the room on the evil he brought into the world. So I would say 1942. Probably split sub-1:40 en route.

The only reason this question is dismissed so easily is because there are countless runners that couldn't accomplish the feat when they were trying for it, so who are you to tell them there were people over a thousand years ago that did it accidently.

1954

Silly thread but I'll join by backing up what somebody already said: it happened when one ancient hunter-gatherer was fleeing another. Wanjiru at the age of 15-16 years ran 3:50/1500m, 13:44 and 28:36, the latter two equal two sub 4 minute mile and he was not a miler but rather long distance runner. And I heard of other talented guys from Africa running sub 1:50 without training.

chez perce wrote:

I'm no historian, but I'm leaning toward 1954.

You need three ingredients:

TALENT -- It's always been there. We are not evolving into faster humans now... probably slower humans, actually.

TRAINING -- We have always been a competitive species. It is easy enough to imagine two rivals (perhaps brothers) racing each other throughout their lives from a very young age. Running races is the most basic kind of friendly competition among kids. Throw in a culture of racing (i.e., spectators, recognition for being the best) and you have a recipe for INTENTIONAL improvement. Even in an unstructured setting it is easy enough to see how someone would build up a strong base (running lifestyle and/or culture of running -- think east Africa today) and add in very basic workouts like hills and fartleks and racing at various differences ("to the big tree and back!", "all the way around the village", etc.) and you have all the ingredients for today's training regimens (well, maybe not altitude tents and underwater pliometrics!). Anyway, I think it is conceivable someone with the talent could have trained themselves into sub-4 shape.

RACE DISTANCE-- This is tough because you would have to be racing this distance -- race too far and you won't go fast enough, race too short and you won't go far enough or slow down before you hit the mile and not hit the mile in under 4. Anyway, it's kind of a crapshoot that this exact distance would be run in under 4 because it is just as likely that a person in this kind of shape would have raced 0.8 miles or 1.32 miles and not hit the mile mark in sub-4.

my .02

runhrd wrote:

Aren't there some downhill mile races where guys run in the 3:30's.....?

Mike Boit ran a 3:28 mega-downhill mile in New Zealand back in the 80s.

1954

The hunter gatherer food thief theory does not impress me. The thief would sprint away. If the pursuers think they can catch him in a sprint, then they will sprint too. If they think they can't catch him in a sprint they either let him go or they pursue him at a persistence hunting pace. Unless they've been training for the mile and know that is their best distance, there's no reason why they would set out at a pace that would not catch the thief in the first minute and would leave them unable to continue running after 4 minutes. So, no four minute mile for the pursuers.

The thief started with an all out sprint, which is not a great way to start a mile race. After the start, the thief is going to respond to the pursuit.

If there is no pursuit, there's no reason to run all out for a full four minutes.

If it's a sprint pursuit the matter of who's the faster sprinter is settled after about 200. At that point either the thief is caught, the thief turns and fights, the pursuit ends, or the pursuit drops into persistence hunt mode. If the pursuit ends, there's no reason for the thief to keep running hard enough to complete the four minute mile. If the pursuit goes into persistence hunt mode, the thief knows he's in for a long run. He's already been sprinting for 20-30 seconds. He'd be a fool to run so hard for the next 3.5 minutes that he's going to have to stop. His pursuers would only be 2 minutes back at that point. The same is true if the pursuit begins at persistence hunt pace. The thief's only hope is to stay just out of reach long enough to get the pursuers to give up. A four minute mile would be stupid.

Also, we're talking about a thief. He has to be carrying something. And it has to be something valuable enough to merit a tremendously strenuous pursuit. But if it's that valuable it's probably too big to carry over the course of a four minute mile.

For those who have pointed out that the animal chasing you would not be capable of chasing you for a mile, consider this:

The guy running away is scared to death. He may have covered a mile before realizing the animal quit 800 meters ago.

Or, how about this:

One animal chases you for 800 meters, quits, and then another animal takes up the chase for the last 800.

Or 4 x 400.

The earliest known relays.

And the baton could be the femur of some poor cave dweller that got killed earlier in the day.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

In the early part of the 20th century, before the popularity of interval training, mst guys trained for the mile by either running an all-out mile every day in hopes that the times continually drop, or they would pick a goal pace and try to run a little further at that pace each day.

Source?

I believe many, many people have probably run a sub-4 in history. Here are some of my thoughts why.

First, it's easy to have the attitude that we are a special generation, and becaus it's rare for us it must not have been done before. Consider just the shear number of humans who came before us. Consider how inactive we have become in the last few centuries as a population. Consider how a lean body used to be the norm and fatness a sign of wealth, unlike today's normal. Consider the lack of distractions in the past- no tv, Internet, newspaper, etc. consider how this would have lead people to play more physical games for fun and entertainment. Especially think of these scenarios pre agriculture when people were not working so much and play happened more.

In all that time, with all those active people over countless generations, at a time when speed and endurance were crucial to survival of the gene pool, think of how many quick runners there would have been. All you need is one in a million, or one in a hundred million of those people to be a genetic freak and the right circumstances and there would be thousands who have broken 4 in the past. It could be running from a predator, a race, for the sheer joy fun. There had to be some nut jobs back then who just ran and suffered out of the shear enjoyment.

Fossilized human footprints are rare, but I recall reading that a few were discovered in the past decade, and the speed they calculated from them was something like 4-5 kph below Bolts average 100m speed. Now if that is just the tiniest sliver of human running history they concluded it was very likely there were humans capable of beating bolt thousands of years ago.

And lest us not forget if we open it up to our ancestors beyond homo sapien sapien, we know of at least one group, either Neanderthals or cro-magnons (I can't remember) who were not only smarter, but stronger, larger and better athletes as well. Funny how they died off and not "us".

I'd love to know the truth, the real first one to do it. Race people of the past. Wouldn't that be neat?

Glenn Cunningham claimed he broke four minutes in a high school practice run, but his coach asked him to keep it quiet out of fear that he would be accused of burning Cunningham out.

In the "Clan of the Cave Bear" series the primitive peoples had regular athletic competitions. While I doubt it was on a 400 meter track, I'm sure that some Cro-Magnon ran a sub 4 mile.

There is no need for a thief carrying something, just running away empty handed from an enemy tribe for the nearest cover/forest that happens to be about one mile away. The one running away usually has some head start - sprint race does not happen, enemy sprinters will not catch him and he manages to judge about even pace for the whole distance. Or imagine the cover is a bit farther but the runaway - knowing he is a supreme miler :-) - believes he will discourage the chasers by running a fast first mile and slow down afterwards. There are many possibilities, homo sapiens species has been here for at least 200 000 years.

Cro-magnons were too heavily built for distance running.

from the Guardian article noted earlier...

"A study of nearly 600 races run in the eighteenth century reveals some remarkable times over other distances, too. Take the marathon. Even though it was not standardised at 26 miles 385 yards until 1924, we find the newspapers and sporting magazines of the time frequently report races of 20 to 30 miles, and it is possible to estimate marathon times from these. These include one inside 2hr 10min completed on the streets of London in 1769 by a Swiss runner, and another of about 2hr 11min in 1753, by a runner who was probably Italian. James Appleby was reported to have run 12 miles in 57min in 1730, and Thomas Phillips was only 15sec behind. Both men on other occasions were reported to have run four miles in 18min."

Given these performances, one can only speculate what the Easter Bunny ran in the 100 and how far Santa Claus threw the shot.

1954 you dipshits.