sub3over40 wrote:
Haile had an excellent chance at a medal. But no one would have beaten Wanjiru on that day. He ran the greatest marathon in history. No rabbits, high heat and humidity, lead the whole way and broke the Olympic Record by 3 minutes. Wanjiru was a beast!
I disagree. Geb's marathon record was stellar in Berlin type races; not in uncomfortable conditions against REAL competition.
Read my lips - Geb would have DNF'd.
Guys, Ever heard what Geb said on racing Sammy? He said it is hard to compete with Sammy because of his racing technique. He referred to sudden burst of speed and deacceleration.. Kind of fartleg running style in a competition. Sammy was a racer but his running style wouldnot have yielded him to break WR. He was there to destroy you COMPLETELY SINGLE HANDEDLY! Geb wouldnot have march this fierce competitor... He ventured marathon with a heart of a lion.
asdgfh wrote:
Not truee wrote:Yes, but it was low 60's. Forecast was high, actual temperatures rather pleasant.
Do you have a source for that? Here's what letsrun said at the time:
http://www.letsrun.com/2008/marathon0824.phpThe article by John Kellogg starts out, "With a starting temperature of 74 degrees in the shade and 84 degrees on the course, conditions were not as difficult as they could have been in Beijing, but the weather was typical for the Olympics - warm and muggy."
The race started at 7:30 AM so if it was 74 at the start, it likely was in the upper 70's or low 80's by the finish.
The guy who said 60's is way out, part of the reason everyone said it was a great win was because of the conditions
The Master Troll wrote:
I still can't believe he didn't run it. If he could run the 10,000m, why could he have run the marathon instead? I get that he had breathing problems, but apparently they weren't bad enough to stop him from running. So this begs the question: if Haile had run the Olympic Marathon in 2008, how would he have done?
It doesn't beg the question - it raises the question. These two expressions mean very different things.
You're welcome.
codger wrote:
sub3over40 wrote:Haile had an excellent chance at a medal. But no one would have beaten Wanjiru on that day. He ran the greatest marathon in history. No rabbits, high heat and humidity, lead the whole way and broke the Olympic Record by 3 minutes. Wanjiru was a beast!
I disagree. Geb's marathon record was stellar in Berlin type races; not in uncomfortable conditions against REAL competition.
Read my lips - Geb would have DNF'd.
Saying "read my lips" doesn't add weight to your argument. It makes it look like you've run out of valid points to put forward, as well as making you look like an arrogant dick.
oijfaiosjfi wrote:
Not truee wrote:Low 60's is not high heat.
But low 80's is quite warm for a marathon.
Thank you....the temp was in the 80's - Maybe the previous poster was misinformed.
ventolin^3 wrote:
of more interest is how close sammy couda run the kennster over 10k
he ran 26'41 off wild +ve splits as a raw 18y ole ( 13'12/13'29 )
he was probably worth 26'30 - 26'35 right there & then at even pace
3y later & immensely stronger, that 26'30 - 26'35 cannot fail to have been significantly faster ( he stopped running track because the turns caused him achilles tendinitis, so he had to move to the roads )
as for the M, geb traditionally had best 10k speed of any guy in the field which he built on for the M
i don't believe in any way or form geb had faster 10k speed than sammy in '08
Ventolin! You've been quiet lately! Nice to have you back!
Engrish wrote:
The Master Troll wrote:I still can't believe he didn't run it. If he could run the 10,000m, why could he have run the marathon instead? I get that he had breathing problems, but apparently they weren't bad enough to stop him from running. So this begs the question: if Haile had run the Olympic Marathon in 2008, how would he have done?
It doesn't beg the question - it raises the question. These two expressions mean very different things.
You're welcome.
And I thank you! Of course, languages change--and I'm afraid that very soon the standard meaning of "begging" a question will be prompting or--as you say--raising the question.
But for now, in standard usage "begging the question" (BTQ) means assuming that which must be proved. Tons of examples are available; a frequent one is on the order of "I know God exists because it says so in the Bible"--which is accompanied by the (usually implicit, rather than explicit) "and the Bible must be right, because it's the word of God." BTQ is often classified as a kind of circular reasoning, though some philosophers/logicians distinguish between the two.
Rody wrote:Sammy was a racer but his running style wouldnot have yielded him to break WR
wrong
he didn't fartlek around in his 58'33wr
if he'd run berlin/rotterdam/franfurt course ~ late '08, he wouda gone for it
ummm, hello, the real reason Geb didn't run the oly marathon was money: he had a multi year contract with berlin marathon which is only a month after olympic thon. Even if he had run, not a snow ball's chance in hell he would beaten Sammy W, in what was probably the greatest marathon performance of all time.
Rody wrote:
Guys, Ever heard what Geb said on racing Sammy? He said it is hard to compete with Sammy because of his racing technique. He referred to sudden burst of speed and deacceleration.. Kind of fartleg running style in a competition. Sammy was a racer but his running style wouldnot have yielded him to break WR. He was there to destroy you COMPLETELY SINGLE HANDEDLY! Geb wouldnot have march this fierce competitor... He ventured marathon with a heart of a lion.
So Sammy surges mid-race. So what? Nothing forces his competitors to run an equally ridiculously inefficient style.
A 2:04 run on even splits is still two minutes ahead of a 2:06 run with ferocious fartlek style running.
i rate wanjaru with geb, komen, bekele.
you don't run a 13:10 then a prefontaine american record back to back at 18 without out of this world talent.
prime geb and wanjaru both were capable of sub 58 half and the 202 marathon.
bekele and komen ? good question what they'd do at the marathon.
in berlin it would have taken a tip top young geb to match wanjaru.
older geb 2008 - i'd peg at 3 or 4 th.
there is the idea that geb has not run well in competitive marathons, that he somehow folds once the pressure is on.
he never folded under the pressure of the OG, world champs etc., yet somehow it is speculated when he was in 203 and 204 shape he folded in a marathon?
geg did not win in london was because of the luck of the draw.
in the marathon the average guy has maybe a 25% chance of running near his PB, the elite, it is more like 40-50%. and these stats get worse for the olympic games, why?
guys would skip the average marathon if training was not going well. the OG, there is no choice.
this is why so many guys don't come anywhere close to their PB in OG competitions.
more than any other event you need the gods on your side.
sure, sometimes you get on a roll and you buck the trend for a time, but the reality is - more than half the time, in the marathon, you're screwed.
Wanjuri went out at world record pace in the 80+ degree heat and almost held it and he wasn't alone that day.
Knowing Geb he would not have let him go but I don't think he would have held on and because of that I think he would have been a DNF rather than have one or two of his countymen pass him.
It was Wanjuri's day.
Forget about the 2008 Olympic marathon. Wanjiru was not going to lose on that day.
What about the 2012 Olympic marathon? That was a snoozer with an near unknown winning. All three Ethiopians dropped out. Could Haile have beat those guys at least?
crazy person wrote:
Forget about the 2008 Olympic marathon. Wanjiru was not going to lose on that day.
What about the 2012 Olympic marathon? That was a snoozer with an near unknown winning. All three Ethiopians dropped out. Could Haile have beat those guys at least?
How true. There is not a marathoner alive (or from the past) who could have hung with Sammy that day. Not one.
"have beaten"
crazy person wrote:
What about the 2012 Olympic marathon? That was a snoozer with an near unknown winning. All three Ethiopians dropped out. Could Haile have beat those guys at least?
Of course. Those guys ran their qualifier on a short Dubai course. I know, ridiculous claim but pretty much all Top 20 finishers there ran lifetime PRs. Something was fishy that day.
Nutella1 wrote:Those guys ran their qualifier on a short Dubai course. I know, ridiculous claim
yes
it is
if handful of kenyans can go 2"03
( ok, only 2 have done it, but no one doubts sammy or mutai in new york or berlin if not picking up an injury woudn't have done it - throw in lel of london-'08 who may have been the best of them all ( !!! ( came only 5th in peking but was slightly injured beforehand & said after he sacrificed himself to help sammy get last jewel in the crown )),
it is pretty damn obvious that you'll also get a bucket of 'thopians who can go 2"04
from 1500 on up, there is little difference in the 2 nations times
( albeit aman looked in 1'42-flat shape in zurich in those cold/wet conditions beating rudy & they just don't "get" the 3ksc, but shoud have 7'55 guys )
dubai/some close to them guys/et al, who are hosting kick-ball world cup soon ( ?! ) & are/have tried for olympics, can pay for best surveyors/engineers/architects/etc in the world to ensure their course is correct
in golf, the dubai tourney is huge in early season & tiger's won it coupla times
( & his loss to bjorn in '01 when in some peak form & playing all 4 rounds together hurt him possibly as bad as any major loss he ever had - go look up '00 tourney )
& tries to play there every year
it is a marvel of human creation
a lush-fairway/fanatastic smooth-true green/desert for rough (!!) course which any golfnut in the world wants to play
dubai
is not short
It is interesting that a poster earlier noted that it possibly would be a close battle in the '08 Olympics between Kenny Bekele and Wanjiru at the 10K, given Wanjiru's level of fitness that year.
Is this really true? I know '08 was a bit past Kenny B's prime, but do you guys really think Wanjiru could have ever beaten him at the 10,000M? It seems unlikely to me, but I will defer to those who are know knowledgeable.
A race between Geb in his prime and Wanjiru would've been awesome to watch in the marathon. I'm not really sure who would win, honestly.
kennster at his peak
( maya been '04/'05 but i woudn't rule out '08 as he wasn't chasing times regulary on circuit )
from
51.3 / 1'47.6 ->
3'30.25
7'19.35
12'35.12
26'12.74
sammy at 18 as track guy was in kennster's 26'17wr & tried to hang on to 13'10 split but faded to 26'41
he obviously was worth lot faster than 26'41 at even pace
easily 26'35 but maybe nearer 26'30
he just didn't run track of note after
it's probable he was at least 10++s faster in peking with 3y of maturity, but again he wouda needed team effort to beat kennster
there have been comparable talents
this guy was in close/in 10k wr shape