800m Men in X-Country and Mental Toughness

My college XC team consisted mainly of 800m runners and walk on distance guys.

It was just training for track. The races weren't approached as anything more than part of training.

Now I must say that there was a big difference in the 800 specialists and the 800/1500 guys.

I moved up the 1500 eventually and was better at XC than the 1:45 800 guys we had.

[quote]observerdd wrote:

lol why cant you even read. you are all arguing something that isnt even being argued.

was ovett a 800 specialist? no? shut up then!

"Even more to the point - Ovett was a 1500 guy - not a 800 guy. Yeah he has that OLY gold but I think we can agree which distance was his speciality.

You keep just reinforcing the point that mid-d guys are not capable of running close to their mid-d class over XC. Even Ovett - not even a 800 specialist - one of the GREATEST all-time 1500 guys is getting touted as winning some brit u21 xc race. That is not exactly the

Ovett was an 800 specialist. He ran 1:44.09. He won the olympics and other major championships at 800. He was an olympic finalist at 800 three times. He beat the WR holder Coe in the olympic 800 final.

He also won many major international XC races against the best senior XC and 10,000 runners in the world.

The point of the OP was that it was hard for him to run xc because he is an 800 runner. Coe, Ovett, Snell, Walker, Aouita all proved that with hard training and guts, an olympic caliber 800 guy can do well at xc on a world class level, let alone what NCAA guys do these days.

Coe - never ran XC at close to 800m level

ovett - not a 800 specialist, never seen results of running xc at equiv level - which would mean being unbeatable at xc by far.

snell - never ran XC at close to world class level

walker - not a 800 specialist, 1:04 HM is not close to world class

aouita - not a 800 specialist

2012 all-athletics 800m rankings:

1. (1.) David RUDISHA 88 KEN 1472 (1472)

2. (2.) Mohammed AMAN 94 ETH 1377 (1377)

3. (3.) Nick SYMMONDS 83 USA 1331 (1331)

4. (4.) Leonard Kirwa KOSENCHA 94 KEN 1330 (1330)

5. (5.) Duane SOLOMON 84 USA 1328 (1328)

6. (6.) Abubaker KAKI 89 SUD 1324 (1324)

6. (6.) Timothy KITUM 94 KEN 1324 (1324)

8. (8.) Adam KSZCZOT 89 POL 1321 (1321)

9. (9.) Andrew OSAGIE 88 GBR 1317 (1317)

10. (10.) Nijel AMOS 94 BOT 1305 (1305)

Which of these people can run XC at the same level they run 800m? None are even close.

[quote]lease wrote:

[quote]ike low wrote:

Peter Snell won olympic gold at 800 and did marathon training. He probably could have come close to winning the NCAA XC.

Bear in mind that Peter actually won a New Zealand cross-country title one year, at a time when NZ was drowning in international-level distance runners. I'm trying to remember--was it at 12km?

Anyway, probably best not to use Peter as an example (for anyone else) of anything. He was truly sui generis. Such a shame he never had kids...

Peter Snell indeed won 1962 NZ X-C title over the best "harriers" NZ had to offer back then. Due to 1962 Perth Commonwealth Games being in September, Snell by-passed the Euro circuit that year. His build-up to Perth allowed him to compete in NZ X-C, over hill n' dale, and 4' fences. Distance was 7 1/2 miles.

What is remarkable is that Snell was a bounder, not a floater like Coe or Ovett.

I have a teammate who has run 1:48.1 for 800m and 31:19 for 10K XC. I know hat is nowhere near an elite time for 10K, but still not bad for an 800/1500 guy.

[quote]observerdd wrote:

Coe - never ran XC at close to 800m level

ovett - not a 800 specialist, never seen results of running xc at equiv level - which would mean being unbeatable at xc by far.

snell - never ran XC at close to world class level

walker - not a 800 specialist, 1:04 HM is not close to world class

aouita - not a 800 specialist

I don't know what you mean by specialist. Do you mean that they could never compete in any other event. I would call someone who wins an olympic medal at an event pretty close to being a specialist as is possible.

Coe won one of the most famous XC races in the world. Just because he didn't race xc all the time does not mean that he wasn't able to beat just about everyone in xc.

Ovett was just about as unbeatable at xc as is humanly possible. I could only find two races, one when he was 35 (he got second) and the other at 9 miles national championships (he got 4th), that he didn't win. There may be others that he lost, but he beat down plenty of world class xc runners. His results in xc parallel his results in 800/1500, always near the front, usually winning

Walker's 4th place at the world xc championships is pretty much world class, unless you mean that world class is only the top three guys in the world.

Aouita won an olympic medal at 800.

Snell was a national xc champion against olympic distance medal winners.

some of the best 800 runners I've ever known were average in cross country. Just the way it is, some people its different though.

it aint easy

are you black?

To David Klech,

Please leave Aries Merritt alone.

800m runners....how long is you long run during the XC season? How about during the track season?

To everybody who keeps talking about 'equivalent': the OP never used that word. He was more talking about adequate. If David Rudisha was as good at XC as he is at the 800 then he would be the greatest runner this world has ever seen. Clearly he isn't that good.

The 800 and the marathon have more in common than the 800 and the 400.

800m specialist is someone who has his BEST performance at 800m.

Examples: Ovett ran 1:44.09/3:30.77. He was a 1500 specialist.

Walker ran 1:44.92/3:32.4/7:37.49, he was a 1500 specialist

Coe ran 1:41.73/3:29.77, he was a 800 specialist.

Some 800m specialists: Kipketer, Rudisha, Borz, Said Guerni, KD, Johnny Gray, Symmonds, Kaki etc.

Still haven't seen any results from world-class 800m specialists running world-class in XC.

This thread is the story of my college life.

Every xc season has been all hard work with very little reward. I got up to 90 miles a week the past month, only to run 4 seconds slower at our first 8k race than I did last year (when I was running 80mpw).

I've found that getting sick (cold or flu) during track season isn't usually a huge setback for me, but if I get sick for a day or two during cross season, I lose all my fitness for like two weeks.

My coach definitely falls into the "800 guys are mentally weak" philosophy and it can be really difficult during xc, physically and emotionally. I'm usually 6th and 7th man on the team, but my coach has always told me I should be top 3 and I have let him down for three straight years... This year I thought I would just pound out the milage and see where it gets me. Even if my season is crap again I know I'll come into track strong.

I definitely don't think you're mentally weak. It's most likely physical and you'll probably never be a stud xc guy, but if you have the right mindset, those 8k races can really improve your toughness, and when track season rolls around, you'll appreciate the shorter stuff way more!

800m interest wrote:

Still haven't seen any results from world-class 800m specialists running world-class in XC.

You will never find someone who fits that criteria. If they became world class in XC then they would no longer be 800 specialists. OP is either is not a long distance runner or needs a few years of aerobic base to become one.

The 800m is a very unique and strange race as all 800m runners kno. You're never quite as fast as the true sprinters and 400m runners and you don't quite have the endurance that the true distance guys have. Running XC like a few have already said is merely a tool for an 800m runner. When I was in college I was more on the foot speed side of the 800m so the endurance part is what I needed to work on. This was the biggest chalenge for me because yes I did get bored 2-3 miles in and I was no longer with the front group, I would have feelings of doubt because I always wanted to be more of a 800/400 guy instead of a 800/1500 guy. What I learned was that you must use XC for your INDIVIDUAL NEEDS and it really helps to have a coach who recognizes this and works with you creating the best atmposphere for you to grow as a runner. The problem with running XC is when the athlete or more times than not the coach has alterior motives and isnt using XC for the sole purpose of improving the athlete's endurance as it applies to running the 800 later on in the season. Hopefully your coach knows your skill set and works with you. Your end of the bargain is to tough out the XC season. It does suck if you don't enjoy but once Spring arrives and you're at 600m with 200m to go relying purely on guts and training it will all be worth it. Hopefully this can be a catalyst to you this fall. Good luck

Laughable. The best 800 guys are 44-45 in the 400, which is equivalent to 27:20-27:50 in the 10000, much less the marathon. How many of these guys have run that? Aouita, a doper who was not even an 800 specialist and was only 1:44.

bangalangadanga wrote:

The 800 and the marathon have more in common than the 800 and the 400.

observerdd wrote:

Coe - never ran XC at close to 800m level

ovett - not a 800 specialist, never seen results of running xc at equiv level - which would mean being unbeatable at xc by far.

snell - never ran XC at close to world class level

walker - not a 800 specialist, 1:04 HM is not close to world class

aouita - not a 800 specialist

2012 all-athletics 800m rankings:

1. (1.) David RUDISHA 88 KEN 1472 (1472)

2. (2.) Mohammed AMAN 94 ETH 1377 (1377)

3. (3.) Nick SYMMONDS 83 USA 1331 (1331)

4. (4.) Leonard Kirwa KOSENCHA 94 KEN 1330 (1330)

5. (5.) Duane SOLOMON 84 USA 1328 (1328)

6. (6.) Abubaker KAKI 89 SUD 1324 (1324)

6. (6.) Timothy KITUM 94 KEN 1324 (1324)

8. (8.) Adam KSZCZOT 89 POL 1321 (1321)

9. (9.) Andrew OSAGIE 88 GBR 1317 (1317)

10. (10.) Nijel AMOS 94 BOT 1305 (1305)

Which of these people can run XC at the same level they run 800m? None are even close.

Did you mean to say that a 1:04 HM is not close to world class??? If so, please define "world class".

If Aouita was not an 800m specialist, that just shows that there are exceptional runners who are "middle/distance specialist". Aouita was ranked #1 in the world at 800m, 1500m, 5000m & 10000m during his career.