Lazy Phelps called out by Clary

Well, that's not good if true. Unfortunately we have evidence of Phelps doing this and none of Clary doing it.Phelps is CLEARLY better when it comes to performance, but the work ethic thing is debatable as far as I'm concerned; I have no reason to believe what you say necessarily, and there are lots of stories to the contrary. People tend to back stars more than also rans, so I always take someone backing up a star or famous person with a grain of salt.

Steve Prefontaint wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

I'm actually looking forward to the retirement of Phelps. I think he's a idiot (DUIs and smoking dope) and is in no way a good role model for anyone. That he doesn't work all that hard at swimming is not a shock to me. I'll be surprised if does responsible respectable things post swimming career.

Tyler Clary also smokes "dope" and drives under the influence (I've seen him do both), so it's not like he could possibly replace Phelps on a moral level. As for performance/work ethic, Phelps has Clary there too. Tyler Clary is the quintessence of douchebaggery. It's really a shame more people don't see through his pathetic caricature of a blue-collar athlete. Tyler Clary had no right to call out Phelps. If people cared about his career at all, there would be pictures of him smoking pot as well--guaranteed.

Flagpole wrote:

Well, that's not good if true. Unfortunately we have evidence of Phelps doing this and none of Clary doing it.

Phelps is CLEARLY better when it comes to performance, but the work ethic thing is debatable as far as I'm concerned; I have no reason to believe what you say necessarily, and there are lots of stories to the contrary. People tend to back stars more than also rans, so I always take someone backing up a star or famous person with a grain of salt.

I could not care less if you believe me or not, but at least the thought has been presented for you to consider. Swimmers are degenerates--it's the nature of their white collar sport. They all carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude; Clary is no different.

Over 10 years ago in college many of my friends were swimmers. Many of them especially the best smoked pot on a daily basis. My best friend, a walk-on, was extremely blue collar and straight laced. He didn't smoke pot at all. He is now a medical doctor. When the picture of Phelps came out my friend was not at all surprised because as he put it, "it was part of the swimming culture." I would tend to believe Tyler Clary is no different. Especially since he had access to Phelps (the most decorated Olympic athlete ever) at an impressionable age.

THAT is a good response, and, just so you know, I AM considering what you say.

Steve Prefontaint wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Well, that's not good if true. Unfortunately we have evidence of Phelps doing this and none of Clary doing it.

Phelps is CLEARLY better when it comes to performance, but the work ethic thing is debatable as far as I'm concerned; I have no reason to believe what you say necessarily, and there are lots of stories to the contrary. People tend to back stars more than also rans, so I always take someone backing up a star or famous person with a grain of salt.

I could not care less if you believe me or not, but at least the thought has been presented for you to consider. Swimmers are degenerates--it's the nature of their white collar sport. They all carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude; Clary is no different.

As a culture we look to sport to reinforce fallacious values.

What difference does it make if Phelps is lazy?

Who cares if a more talented athlete has to work less?

Why should we value hard work?

Hard work is for people without talent.

Just like the old English School model, we should value the athletes who perform the best while training the least. The rest are just low class strivers who will dilute the gene pool.

Who are these people and what did they say?

Neil Walker, a 32-year-old Olympic gold medalist who has been on various relay teams with Phelps, tried to find an explanation Monday.

"He trains harder than anyone in the world," Walker said. "Bob Bowman (Phelps' coach) tells lots of stories. He does not take a day off, ever: Sundays, on a day when he's sick, never. He doesn't miss a day. That can be years of extra training over time. And, of course, he's perfecting his stroke when he's training."

(John) Naber, who won four golds and a silver in the 1976 Montreal Olympics, said one of the differences is Phelps' work ethic: "He is by far the harder worker. Everybody says Michael Phelps works so hard in the pool, it's just not natural talent."

The US men's head coach, Eddie Reese, is delighted that Phelps is swimming the race alongside Thorpe, van den Hoogenband and Hackett, and he also feels the best of Phelps is yet to come.

"As he gets older he's going to get bigger, he's going to get stronger. He's got such a work ethic and the gift of swimming when he's tired. His 400m IM [a race in which he holds the world record] - I will guarantee you he has not come close to what he can do in that.

Steve Prefontaint wrote:

I could not care less if you believe me or not, but at least the thought has been presented for you to consider. Swimmers are degenerates--it's the nature of their white collar sport. They all carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude; Clary is no different.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are any more degenerate than runners. What I would say is that "black line fever" often caused competitive swimmers to overcompensate when doing almost anything other than swimming.

Back in my beach lifeguard days we would car pool early in the morning to the life guard competitions. The "we" were myself, good runner-not so good swimmer, and the collegiate swimmers home on summer break. On the way to the meet they would down mass quantities of beer and doughnuts. Of course I had to abstain because I had triple with beach 2 mile/mile/half mile runs and there was no way I could drink beer and eat doughnuts and expect to not hurl. During and after the competitions they were beasts, completely unaffected by their “breakfast of champions”.

So I suppose some would call this abhorrent behavior but it was also quite a lot of fun hanging with them.

It's quite the opposite. Most swimmers and coaches comment positively about his work effort.

I guess most of you have just been listening to the butt kissers over the last few years...this happens when in presence of greatness, and Phelps is a GREAT swimmer, no doubt...he's the best ever.

Here's one -

http://capandgoggles.com/2012/03/01/the-myth-of-michaels-talent/

Here's a pull-out:

"...the guy has also missed a boatload of workouts over the past eight years."

I've heard swimming commentators mention this too...say that if he actually focused on training that he'd set world records that wouldn't be touched for decades. There were stories about this just after the last Olympics.

Now this Clary guy.

Also, Bobby, Cindy, Peter, Marsha, Greg, and Jan.

Flagpole wrote:

I guess most of you have just been listening to the butt kissers over the last few years...this happens when in presence of greatness, and Phelps is a GREAT swimmer, no doubt...he's the best ever.

Here's one -

http://capandgoggles.com/2012/03/01/the-myth-of-michaels-talent/

Here's a pull-out:

"...the guy has also missed a boatload of workouts over the past eight years."

I've heard swimming commentators mention this too...say that if he actually focused on training that he'd set world records that wouldn't be touched for decades. There were stories about this just after the last Olympics.

Now this Clary guy.

Also, Bobby, Cindy, Peter, Marsha, Greg, and Jan.

That's your response? Seriously? No quotes, no facts? Which commentators are you referring to? Which stories after the Olympics?

You spent a day trying to back up your supposition and all you came up with was this? LOL

Phelps not only inspires his team in competition, (Mark) Schubert revealed. "I communicate alot with Bob, just to kind of help me with benchmarks to inspire other coaches and swimmers and he just tells me about some of the things Michael does in training which are phenomenal. Also the way he competes in-season and out of season."

Ha! Spent a day? Man, you have a VERY wrong impression about the amount of time and effort I would give to such a thing. I don't know what to tell you brother...I just gave you one link (I'm sure I could find more, but I'm not that interested...really). The Clary dude is another of course, and not being a fan of swimming, I couldn't tell you who the commentators were...likely former swimmers...lots of negative stuff was said about Phelps when he had his DUI and pot troubles...Kelloggs dropped him as did some other companies, and that's when the negative stuff came out. Sorry that I didn't chronicle it for you brother.

Ask yourself this...do those who have gushed about his work ethic REALLY see it? I mean, some of them are famous former swimmers, and they have lives...it's not like they are coaching the guy. Maybe he turns it on when they're at the pool? Who REALLY knows? Because of that, I would tend to believe someone like Clary who trains with him vs. John Naber who doesn't. I'm not saying he IS lazy or has a bad work ethic, just that this Clary guy isn't the first to say so.

To get there, Bowman had turned Phelps from a lumpy speedster into a smooth, lean winning machine. Gone the impediment to slipstream. "He's more efficient and balanced," explained Bowman. "He had a little gallop in Athens (2004). He was swimming like an age-grouper. Now he's swimming like Ian Thorpe. He's alot more powerful."

Weight training three times a week since last April - a programme delayed by Phelps's back problems after Athens 2004 - had contributed much to the transformation, one that is far from over.

"Next summer, there's really no time for training so this is the summer of training for Beijing," said Bowman. "He will put in his most intense summer he can do. He'll do distance training, we'll try to build a base of fitness so that he can come back and do a big programme, hopefully everything faster."

What a thought! "What he's done this year has laid a base for what we hope to do next year." The programme cannot be finalized until the Beijing programme is securely in place.

What kept the swimmer motivated? "Michael has clear goals. He loves to swim and as long as he loves it he'll be good at it. When the day comes that he doesn't, then he'll have to stop. But that makes it easy. He loves to race. He loves to race the best. Last night was the perfect scenario for him because he wants to race the fastest person in his events."

His drive was having "specific goals ... we mapped out what we thought he could do (here in Melbourne) and he was a little faster than that but that's the kind of thing that keeps him motivated."

Meantime, training with Phelps and Bowman at Michigan is having a positive effect on Moss Burmester, Commonwealth 200m butterfly champion from New Zealand, if results at the Telstra Grand Prix in Brisbane are a good indicator.

Burmester's coach Jan Cameron told the New Zealand Herald: "Moss has put in three hard weeks of training. We were very fortunate to be invited by Bob Bowman to join his University of Michigan swimmers. It was very demanding. We trained either two or three sessions every day, with each session around 90 minutes, and then there was an hour of dry training each day, too - either weights, pilates or cardio."

Cameron revealed that Burmester had gone "head to head with Phelps" in one set, challenging the world's number one swimmer in a set of 40 50m efforts off a short rest. "They did 10x100m kick drill on 1min 50sec and then one more to see how fast they could go. Phelps did 1:03 and Moss did 1:07, which was the second fastest from the entire squad. We do a similar drill at home and Moss went five seconds faster than he has done before.

Don't waste your time. It's tough to have a discussion with the casual, once-every-four-years-fan. That's why I decline to engage guys like this.

...Bowman piled on the metres and challenges. After one particularly bruising practice, Phelps leapt out of the water and started throwing water at some of the girls watching nearby. “I said 'you should be very tired, that's the hardest practice you've ever done',” Bowman recalled. "I'll never forget, he looked me straight in the eye and said 'I don't get tired', so I made that my life goal to see if I could accomplish that."