train slow, race fast

I read about Wilson Waigwa, and the training he did in college. In the book written by the great coach Todd Banks. And in the book Wilson Waigwa when asked what trining he did. He stated that most days he just did slow running. Asked how often he did hardworks training or track workouts. He stated maby once in TWO weeks. Thought this was bull, then talked to a coach who had been at UTEP as a gradstudent while Wilson Waigwa was there. And Banks was the head coach, and he backed that claim up. Also told me that Wilson Waigwa WALKED 8 miles to school eveyday. And was quite pugy, and being such was not intrested in running to school.

He also told me that Todd, could get the most out of any runner. And get guys running, times that they did not even think they could do. Another intresting fact, that I picked up from talking with this coach. Was that he said Todd was very carefull to have his runners only do as much speed as they had to. Said if your not sure if you should run a track work don't.

Did some crazy things, he had a guy who could only run the 400 in sixty seconds. But the mile in 4:20 and the 5k in 13:45. This guy did not have shit for speed, but could really take a lot of hardwork. So Todd had hem doing Hardday Harday Easyday Hardday Hardday Easyday Longrun.

The guy told me that with Wilson Waigwa had a great deal of bodyfat. Even when he was race ready he was still somewhat flabby. But was like a rocket, and had a good deal of stammina. So Todd felt due to the fact he had great speed and stammina that this guy really need to work on his body's fat burning systems. So he had hem doing slow runs, and I heard frist person that these runs where around 8-9 min pace. With a track workout evey other week.

I have seen a few Log's of Lassie V., and when in prep for the racing season he would do things like 3x a mile in under 4. But in the of season according to his logs anyway he would run very slow. Half 5k pace was normal, for hem be training at. I was lucky and got a chance to ask via e-mail a coach who had run with hem by suching for there nations trake federation liknks. And I got the chance to ask what the point of moveing that slow was. And he stated, the fin's looked at things this way. The fastest a man could run for a mile was near 4 min. How can you expect the body to run with 90 seconds of that for long arounds of time? The idea is that you want to train at the pace, where your burning the most fat. But running at the lowest effort. As we all know that you can not run 210 miles a week hard. Something that those guys did often. Explained that if you run 5:30 miles, you might end up running 100 a week. But a smart guy who is running his slower might end up running 210. Now the other runner has burned twice the fat. In that same weeks time.

The key idea that I came away with, was that goal to of base work was to run as many miles as ones body could could be put though. At a relaxed pace as you would end up running more miles that way.

One thing that just blows me away every time I look at it is the Viren training section in one of Mike Sandrock's books. Yes, the mileage totals are impressive, but it is the low heart rates that shock and awe. Things like 15k keeping pulse at 86 and 20k with pulse 96. Holy crap. I can't take a dump at those heart rates.

Viren 5k PB - 13-16

Coe 5k PB - 14-xx

'nuff said.

SolMelRichards wrote:

In the book written by the great coach Todd Banks.

Never heard of him. Try Ted, it fits better.

I heard Lydiard say that \\\"WE never ran long \\\'slow\\\' distance, we ran long fast distance, that why we always beat everyone.\\\" Isnt this the entire foundation of the lydiard system; long hard miles???? Thats what ive gathered from all his books.

Slowly but steadily, it seems to be working. I have been posting in various threads for a while now about my training. After taking a year off due to injury I have been using a heart rate monitor since May 11 last year. I ran LSD runs all spring summer to prepare for cross country. I PR'd several times during the cross country season. I took a minute and thirty two seconds off my 8K XC time. My "just below 70%" pace has gone from 7:45-9 minutes a mile to 6:50-7:30 a mile. When it's about its 50 degrees or warmer I run between 6:50 and 7:20 with a lot of it around 7:05. Through the cross country season I ran out and back on a trail that took 2 hours staying below 70%. It now takes me less then and hour and 40 minutes. I also feel like I have more energy during workouts and it's a lot easier to do several miles worth of intervals then it used to be and I'm also consistently faster. I ran a PR for the 5K on the track two weekends ago in my first 5K of the spring season. I usually start the season off slower then 16:30. I ran 16:01. If I can get my relative VO2 max over 80 ml/min/kg I will be elite. I'm estimating I'm about 65 right now. My only setback lately has been shin splints, they have been a limiting factor in some of my runs lately. I've been taking calcium citrate for about 5 days and my shins have been feeling a little bit better. They don't hurt as bad walking around as they used to. It's kind of tough to heal bones when you race a 10K then run a 16 mile long run in the same weekend.

You got it. Here are some quotes from Running With Lydiard regarding the base or Marathon Conditioning phase of his training program.

"The best running program is to cover approximately 160 km per week at just under your maximum steady state, plus any supplementary running, such as jogging, that you feel inclined or have the time to do.

"They (Lydiards' athletes) were running 160 km at their near-best aerobic effort during their evening runs and on a long-duration weekend run; but...they were also covering up to another 160 km in much more easily paced morning and mid-day training sessions...my middle distance men, Peter Snell and John Davies...were running the lowest total weekly mileages but even they were covering about 250 km per week.

Here is what Lydiard has to say regarding LSD

"[to] get the best results - the aerobic pressure must be kept up to near the maximum steady state and, with increasing fitness, that level rises so the exercise must increase in pressure with it. A level of aerobic effort between 70 and 100% in training is most effective for the time spent running..."

I take that final line to mean that you are supposed to start the evening runs and weekend long-run nice and easy (70%) and to pick up the pace over the course of the run to just below your maximum steady state pace (100%).

i. kant wrote:

Will wrote:

I guess Coe never heard much about Viren's training.

viren's training was anything but slow. it was "slow" for him, very fast for us.

virens training was prettyyyy slow dude. Except for the anaerobic phase.

viren is the reason I feel confident in my long slow distance approach. The dude was sub 27:30 quality, and said he was surprised that pre was able to run fast without ridiculous VOLUME. VOLUME.

This year over summer I trained over summer coming into xc for the first year because freshmen year I joined but I didn't run at all. So over summer I did max mid 40's a week and not that fast. And then at my first race I got 16:48 which wasn't that fast but unprecedented because of the speed of my training. Then a week later I got 15:48 at another race and that was even more unprecedented because that week I was barely getting 3:20 during 1k repeats. So I believe that people can be significantly slower at practice and pop out during races. I attribute my race times to what I hear people call a race mentality. They see all the competition around them and make it their goal to not lose to them. I see people around me and even if I don't believe I can run faster than them I push myself so that I don't lose to them, maybe me trying to feed my ego aids in beating the competition but I believe that training slow can still mean fast races.