Sage,
How did the work for Hansons differ when training at shorter distances?
Sage,
How did the work for Hansons differ when training at shorter distances?
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Under Rojo at Cornell I ran 2:21 off of 10km kind of training (but lots of mileage weeks in the 100-120mpw range). Lots of slower miles at 7:00 min pace....except for 20-mile Long Runs that I'd do at steady 6-6:30 pace before dropping sub 6:00 pace for 10-8 miles at the end. But still a few Mile Repeat workouts (5-6 x 1600m) and stuff like 8-10 x 1000m. At Hansons (and you could read my poorly written book "Running For The Hansons" for an exact training log) I struggled for 1 year to adjust to post collegiate training (ran 2:24 at Boston and 1:07 in the half my first year there). Mainly I was averaging around 120 miles a week (with some weeks up to 140mpw). The 20-mile Long Runs with the team would go fast....usually mostly sub 6:00 miles and the Hansons "go-miles" of running low 5-min pace (or faster) between 15-18 miles in. Still some track workouts of mile repeats and 1km repeats...but not very often. I'd say the biggest change was running with marathon teammates (guys much better than me and who had run 2:15-2:10), and doing lots of Threshold/Tempo Workouts. So the longer workouts like 2 x 5 mile repeats, or 2 x 4 mile repeats for 3 x 3 mile repeats or 2 x 6 mile repeats. The 16-mile simulator (16-miles at goal MP) was usually just the icing on the cake or something that could over-train you. There were also 8-10-mile "Cut down runs" from like 6:00 to 5:00 pace or starting at just slower than MP and finishing at tad faster. It was those long threshold workouts at 10-sec/mile faster than marathon goal pace (i.e. 3 x 3-miles with a 0.5 mile easy jog between). That was all about the high end aerobic strength and making marathon pace feel more manageable. The Hansons wouldn't call it "Threshold/Tempo", but in scientific terms at that level and pace range it was very close to Half Marathon race pace (note I ran 1:04:32 a few months before my 2:16:52 PR). So about 4:55/mile pace to 5:12/mile pace. That segment they were actually training me at 2:15 pace workouts....so the 3 x 3 miles at "10 seconds faster than goal pace" was 4:58/mile pace.....very close to my half marathon PR at the time (and therefore Lactate Threshold). I'll give the Hansons credit for taking me in, giving me a chance and coaching me to 1:04:32/2:16:52...however after a lackluster 2:18:24 midpack finish at the 2012 Trials I knew i probably wasn't going anywhere to be sponsored as a road runner. I'll give myself credit to my 2015 marathon season where i got 8th place at the USATF Marathon Champs in LA and then 8 weeks later placed 16th at Boston. That was after running a lot of ultras. I actually consider that run at Boston to be at least "on par" with my 2:16:52 time performance when I focused 100% on the roads. Since then running sub 2:19:00 has always been a struggle for me, but I ran a couple more sub 2:20s on my own...including at Houston and CIM.
whizka wrote:
Sage,
How did the work for Hansons differ when training at shorter distances?
S. Canaday wrote:
Under Rojo at Cornell I ran 2:21 off of 10km kind of training (but lots of mileage weeks in the 100-120mpw range). Lots of slower miles at 7:00 min pace....except for 20-mile Long Runs that I'd do at steady 6-6:30 pace before dropping sub 6:00 pace for 10-8 miles at the end.
But still a few Mile Repeat workouts (5-6 x 1600m) and stuff like 8-10 x 1000m.
At Hansons (and you could read my poorly written book "Running For The Hansons" for an exact training log) I struggled for 1 year to adjust to post collegiate training (ran 2:24 at Boston and 1:07 in the half my first year there).
Mainly I was averaging around 120 miles a week (with some weeks up to 140mpw). The 20-mile Long Runs with the team would go fast....usually mostly sub 6:00 miles and the Hansons "go-miles" of running low 5-min pace (or faster) between 15-18 miles in.
Still some track workouts of mile repeats and 1km repeats...but not very often.
I'd say the biggest change was running with marathon teammates (guys much better than me and who had run 2:15-2:10), and doing lots of Threshold/Tempo Workouts.
So the longer workouts like 2 x 5 mile repeats, or 2 x 4 mile repeats for 3 x 3 mile repeats or 2 x 6 mile repeats. The 16-mile simulator (16-miles at goal MP) was usually just the icing on the cake or something that could over-train you. There were also 8-10-mile "Cut down runs" from like 6:00 to 5:00 pace or starting at just slower than MP and finishing at tad faster.
It was those long threshold workouts at 10-sec/mile faster than marathon goal pace (i.e. 3 x 3-miles with a 0.5 mile easy jog between). That was all about the high end aerobic strength and making marathon pace feel more manageable.
The Hansons wouldn't call it "Threshold/Tempo", but in scientific terms at that level and pace range it was very close to Half Marathon race pace (note I ran 1:04:32 a few months before my 2:16:52 PR). So about 4:55/mile pace to 5:12/mile pace. That segment they were actually training me at 2:15 pace workouts....so the 3 x 3 miles at "10 seconds faster than goal pace" was 4:58/mile pace.....very close to my half marathon PR at the time (and therefore Lactate Threshold).
I'll give the Hansons credit for taking me in, giving me a chance and coaching me to 1:04:32/2:16:52...however after a lackluster 2:18:24 midpack finish at the 2012 Trials I knew i probably wasn't going anywhere to be sponsored as a road runner.
I'll give myself credit to my 2015 marathon season where i got 8th place at the USATF Marathon Champs in LA and then 8 weeks later placed 16th at Boston. That was after running a lot of ultras. I actually consider that run at Boston to be at least "on par" with my 2:16:52 time performance when I focused 100% on the roads.
Since then running sub 2:19:00 has always been a struggle for me, but I ran a couple more sub 2:20s on my own...including at Houston and CIM.
whizka wrote:
Sage,
How did the work for Hansons differ when training at shorter distances?
Thanks Sage.
You are always very informative and give complete answers, Bravo!
Sage, what did your typical 2 week/10 day taper look like off that?
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Sage, I’m training for a sub 2:20. Did you focus on faster speeds earlier in the training cycle (V02 and CV workouts like 5-6x1600, 8-10x1000) and then transition to lactate threshold and marathon pace workouts (4-5x 2 mile, and 2x5 mile) as you got closer to the marathon? Or did you mix training intensities within the same week?
I've never tried the marathon, but I know two males who ran at the lower end of the 2:15-2:20 range, and one female who ran 2:40.
All of them did high mileage - more than 100 miles per week on average - but two preferred doing more half-marathon pace work (so 4-6 mile tempos at HM pace, 8xmile) and a little 10k work for efficiency and comfort, while the other did more of the "classic" 8-10 mile tempo at marathon pace every week.
Just get the miles in, and if you can run 100 mpw for a year you'll PR massively
Just another data point from a 2.20 marathon finish...
Bit different from most others in that all key sessions were treadmill based supplemented by easier stuff outdoors.
Mon 10-13 miles 6.00 - 6.25
Tue 7 miles am, pm TM 13.4 kph start (8.3 mph) i.e. 7.12 mm, increase by 0.1kph every minute for 55 minutes finishing at 18.9kph (11.8 mph) i.e. 5.06 mm. 2% gradient. Easy to begin with but sting is in the tail.
Wed 10-13 miles 6.00 - 6.25
Thu 7 miles am, pm TM either 60 mins at 5.40 mm / 2%, or 60 mins @ 7.12 mm @ 11% gradient.
Fri 10-13 miles 6.00 - 6.25
Sat 13 miles 6.00 - 6.25, with a few miles at HM effort.
Sun 21 miles 6.00 - 6.25
I have one of the slowest 10k PR's possible considering the marathon time:
10k - 32.13 i.e. 5.11 mm (although strangely I have a 31.29 split in the middle of a HM according to my Garmin, but never got close to it on a standalone race).
Half - 1.08.11 i.e. 5.12 mm
Marathon 2.20.48 i.e. 5.22 mm