What in the name of all that is holy....was WEBB thinking???

what in the name... 3 spaniards and only 1 kenyan...? (go for it)

webb strategy: finding himself in a slow race(800m in 2:03), he needed to blow-up a bunched pack of kickers. he was in great shape at this time, was a little anxious, and as a result accidentally (too a certain degree) went too hard for 100m. a gradual wind-up over 300m to get him to the bell lap could have strung-out the pack and put him in a better position lactic/oxygen-debt-wise.

i've watched this video frequently over the years to remind myself what not to do when i'm feeling antsy in moderately paced mid-distance race. (mile - one move: kick to the line)

If he had gone sooner, he might have pulled off an upset like this LOL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3djhvmhFXc

I'm as much of a Webb supporter as anyone, but also objective enough to know that his racing IQ has never been any good. Most of the comments on this thread about the stupidity of this move are spot on.

But Harry Carey (about the middle of page 2) makes the best point of all. However his statement is only half correct.

"Webb learned to race in high school, but unfortunately skipping collegiate competition prevented him from graduating to a higher level in his race tactics."

The first part is wrong. Alan never learned how to race in high school, simply because he virtually never needed to race. He just out-ran everyone because he was on a completely different level than his competition.

That magnified the impact of his decision to leave college after one year, during which he didn't even get a full three seasons of racing experience. Obviously much has been written and said about this decision, but it's pretty clear it was a terrible one.

Maybe Michigan was the right program and he just never gave it the chance to succeed. Maybe it was the wrong program and he should have transferred. But by leaving school and turning pro, he denied himself the time and the opportunity to learn how to race, learn how to deal with the rounds in a championship setting, and mature as a competitive high-level mid-distance runner. Unfortunately and sadly, he has been paying the price ever since.

Say what you will about the US collegiate system. It certainly has more than its share of faults, not to mention lousy coaches. But it provides opportunities to develop, mature, and learn this craft that simply are not available anywhere else.

So a question for everybody:

Why doesn't Webb go up to the 5K?

He's always been a beast in workouts and had quite good success in XC the year he was at Michigan. Strength/endurance should be no problem.

Currently he's dealing with trying to live up to his own brilliant past at 1500/mile and clearly never could figure out tactics. My sense is that tactical problems would be lessened in the 5K.

Of course, the Robby Andrews partnership makes this idea more or less moot.

I think the explanation for this is that Alan Webb was fitted with a remote control device, operated by his coach from a basement in suburban Virginia. He was momentarily distracted by a call of nature and accidentally pushed the device to "full throttle" mode, forcing Alan to speed up insanely. By the time the coach had realized what had happened, the device's battery was near zero.

I think he just likes the mile, thinks of himself as a miler, and would view moving up to the 5k as admitting failure.

va coach wrote:Say what you will about the US collegiate system... But it provides opportunities to develop, mature, and learn this craft that simply are not available anywhere else.

This seems like an odd view given that none of the runners who smoked Webb in that final learned to race in the US collegiate system!

(Don't get me wrong: I also think Webb should have stayed at Michigan. If nothing else, his early departure foreshadowed a bunch of other impulsive, impatient moves -- most recently his departure from Salazar's group before even running a full outdoor season. But it's hard to argue, on the basis of international results over the past century or so, that the US collegiate system offers any particular edge in tactical racing that isn't available in many, many other places.)

If you go from 700 out or thereabouts, there are few performances as great as El G in the 04 Olympic final, where he ran a super smooth 53 for the third 400. He did not go nuts, he just built it up. I keep blabbin about that race on these boards, but heck it was amazing. Also a gritty stretch run vs. Lagat.

Have to admit, I did like Webb's move in the 04 trials...

Ramzi ran so much smarter than webb... waited till 350 to go, dropped webb to second, gave 3rd place too much gap to make up, 3rd ended up tiring for a 2nd place finish and 2nd (webb) faded to 6th or 8th.

The closest finished ended up moving up from 4th or beyond that. Great way for Ramzi to let the favorites tire themselves out and make a move at the right time. You cannot underestimate the stategic benefits of analyzing this race.

This isn't the first time Webb has done this...

2004 US Olympic Trials 1500 FINAL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGQGxgVkMg

this is with 800 or so to go....

lol. Thanks for the video. I had heard and read about that race but didn't realize there was video of it.

aloha warrior wrote:

If he had gone sooner, he might have pulled off an upset like this LOL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3djhvmhFXc

Curious Georgette wrote:

So a question for everybody:

Why doesn't Webb go up to the 5K?

After Webb ran 27:3x, Canova said Webb has a sign around his neck saying, "I am a 5k runner".

This is the answer.

Abdalazer wrote:

I think the explanation for this is that Alan Webb was fitted with a remote control device, operated by his coach from a basement in suburban Virginia. He was momentarily distracted by a call of nature and accidentally pushed the device to "full throttle" mode, forcing Alan to speed up insanely. By the time the coach had realized what had happened, the device's battery was near zero.

hah.

Honestly, a 13.3 100m in that stretch would have been a better choice...but when racing often you don't have the luxery of choice.

Webb's place of take off (700m) was correct in my opinion, because he was/has never been able kick with the really fast milers at the end of a race. He didn't execute it like he should have though. Like Old Miler said, El Guerrouj's strategy to go from 700m was great because of the build up to the final lap almost always neutralized the kickers and he would gap them before the final 100m so they could never make a run at him. If Webb would have ran it in this style I think he might have placed better than he did.

Jurgen Straub tried the build up from 700m strategy at Moscow in 1980 and it got him a silver behind Coe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKvbzPgYwbk

q.wernm wrote:

Ramzi ran so much smarter than webb...

When you're the fastest guy in the race, it's easy to look smart.

Straub was an excelent example of how to make that move.

Finished ahead of Ovett.

Here is what Webb must have been thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsUeTep6tzo

Has anyone else noticed he has sucked since growing the hair. Coincidence or not?