Did letsrun ever come to an agreement about stepping on steeple barriers?

Medal Detector wrote:

... But maybe I'm just "on tilt." Is that something they said back when you actually had something to do with the sport Malmo?

You are actually correct youngster. It is an antiquated pinball reference from the pre Atari / nintendo64 era of gaming. When you got all fired up and knocked the pinball machine out of balance, the machine flashed the "TILT" sign. Your overreaction to malmo's query signified that you are out of balance. Settle Down!

uhmmmm, "on tilt" is a poker term. It means that emotion has taken over your senses and you're self-destructing. Time to leave the table.

If hurdling can be just as fast even for relatively slow guys(10:20s), then why not learn that way so you don't have to completely change form once you start to get good? It just seems like it could cause problems down the road. Not to mention the fact that stepping on barriers in a crowd of hurdlers sounds like a good way to end up in a heap.

Also, wouldn't stepping on the barriers require you to jump higher at each barrier? You would have to get enough height to plant a foot on the barrier, which would seem to be higher than necessary to hurdle. The goal is to move forward, not up.

I'd also love to hear about these 8:00-8:35 steeplers who step on the barriers while running <68s/lap.

Azaleas wrote:

I'd also love to hear about these 8:00-8:35 steeplers who step on the barriers while running <68s/lap.

That there are a few steeplechasers who step on barriers isn't in dispute - there have been at least a few every year for decades. I simply asked Medal Detector to name the guys he was referring to. Rather than respond with the answer (Joe Steepleblow, John Q Steeplepulic, Joe Steepleschmoe, etc) he chose to attack me personally for some odd reason.

The logical conclusion to be drawn here is that he simply made shit up - which is a common tactic here.

Picture telling a 20 second 110 High Hurdler they should 3 step because to 5 step, or even worse 4 step, would require a change in form once they get faster. Or use a 65 second 400 Hurdler and them to 13 step if you'd like. It's all bad advice. As I've said before, the surges it requires to go from 80 to 70 pace 28 times are far more deleterious to a runner than 72 to 70. It's the same reason why a 30 foot shot putter shouldn't spin (in all honesty I personally don't think a 40-45 shot putter should spin but I'd be willing to have my mind changed on that. (But not by Brian Oldfield.)And If I say I can name I know a couple all American shot putters who slide will you ask me to name them? If you do, it shows you pay no attention to the sport. (Just like askign to name a couple All Americans who step shows a lack of attention to the sport.) If Malmo names a handful of guys he's brought from 9:30 to sub 9, it means I'm speaking to a guy who understands coaching. In reality I'm speaking to a guy who has theories and has no practical application of them as a coach. As far as the OPs original question, that's a waste of time. If I answer his question it gets me nothing. Proving Malmo wrong is a regular theme on this site and never changes him. If someone on this thread wants to take his advice, they are more than welcome to. I have given a bunch of reasons why one shouldn't but if that upsets the Golden Calf worship of a few, I'd hate to ruin your day with some like rational thought.

oldsteeplefellow wrote:

The trajectory of this thread is amazing. My own opinion of the original question is; even a 10:20 steepler wants to run 10:19 and hurdling is a faster method, when possible. Yes you might have to accelerate to the barrier, but the nature of the race is just that. A constant disruption of stride. It's why some people can do well and other better/faster runners cannot.

Doyle Brunson wrote:

uhmmmm, "on tilt" is a poker term. It means that emotion has taken over your senses and you're self-destructing. Time to leave the table.

ohmmm, the use in poker was lifted from the ORIGINAL source - pinball. I RULE!!

(poker)

"The most likely origin of the word "tilt" is as a reference to tilting a pinball machine. The frustration from seeing the ball follow a path towards the gap between the flippers can lead to the player physically tilting the machine (in an attempt to guide the ball towards the flippers). However, in doing so, some games will flash the word "TILT" and freeze the flippers, causing the ball to be lost for certain. The metaphor here being over-aggression due to frustration leads to severely detrimental gameplay."

Medal Detector wrote:

If Malmo names a handful of guys he's brought from 9:30 to sub 9, it means I'm speaking to a guy who understands coaching. In reality I'm speaking to a guy who has theories and has no practical application of them as a coach. As far as the OPs original question, that's a waste of time. If I answer his question it gets me nothing. Proving Malmo wrong is a regular theme on this site and never changes him. If someone on this thread wants to take his advice, they are more than welcome to. I have given a bunch of reasons why one shouldn't but if that upsets the Golden Calf worship of a few, I'd hate to ruin your day with some like rational thought.

What theories and advice are you talking about? Malmo has asked you to name the people you were talking about. That is all he has said on this thread.

Hmmmm, did Medal Detector just say that it would be bad for a person to change form once he got fast? Does this also apply to steeplers and stepping/hurdling the barrier? Give me a break, man. You can't even stay consistent.

You keep asking Malmo to give himself credibility while you have done nothing to establish your own. None of us must pay attention because we never memorized the steeple form of every All-American there has ever been. Otherwise, we would surely know you are the Vince Lombardi of steeple-coaching. Look, we all know where Malmo is coming from. He is not all-knowing, but it is fair to say he has some credentials. You, on the other hand, come in here and challenge everything he says yet have done virtually nothing to establish some authority. Then, you call us sheep for giving his advice a higher value than yours.

He Hate Me wrote:

If hurdling can be just as fast even for relatively slow guys(10:20s), then why not learn that way so you don't have to completely change form once you start to get good?

I'm a senior at a small DIII school. I just never learned to hurdle correctly. It's not just my coach's fault, I should have pressed harder to learn better form. And, honestly, after 6+ years of running, including the three most recent years where my PRs have crept forward by only a few seconds, I know, despite 80 mile weeks and hard workouts, I'm never going to be a sub 16 guy. I'm just trying to be as fast as I can now. :)

Gari Roba steps on barriers. his PR is 8:09

I think the correct question is "Did letsrun ever come to an agreement on anything?" and the answer would be no...

Stepping on steeple barriers is only for people with pussies. Literally.

Agreed.

If you are looking to run 10:20 you probably should step the barriers. It will put less stress on your body and may allow you to run a faster time, despite the negligible difference of jumping over it.

Obviously if you are a top steeplechaser the time difference would matter and you would probably have good enough form to take on the extra impact.

It has been forever since I have run a steeplechase, but I will try to chime in and stay relevant to the original question.

I don't have any doubt that hurdling over a barrier is more efficient than stepping on it. But, there are a couple of factors that come into play, practically. First, most people can only hurdle with one lead leg. That causes a need to accelerate and stutter step during the race. So, while the actual second or two around the barrier is likely more efficient hurdling, you should think about it as the entire approach, maybe 2-3 seconds before and 1-2 seconds after.

I think it would be better to step on it than have a lot of disruption to pace and stutter stepping so you can hurdle.

I taught myself to hurdle with either foot as a lead leg. This always seemed to be a huge advantage.

I guess if I was a coach I would tell my athlete to learn how to hurdle it, but also to not worry to much about stepping on one, as that is probably better than completely changing your running cadence coming up to it.

But, if you are such a bad hurdler that you are stepping on every one, you really need to work on your form or move to a different event. You don't have to be all that good to make it work better to hurdle than to step on it.

10:04 first try wrote:

old steepler wrote:

If you can get your foot on it, you can get your foot over it, and you'll expend less energy hurdling (even badly) than if you lift yourself up with the step then come crashing down.

Just practice for a few minutes twice a week.

Amen.

Agree

I'm not sure your hurdle analogy works in this case. All I am saying is that the Steeple is an event of constant disruption every 100 meters or so. Even if you step on every barrier, there will be some sort of acceleration/deceleration to accomodate the act of going over a barrier. So, if it's possible to hurdle you should. If you find yourself in a crowd or between strides, go ahead and step. After all, it's 98% about the running in between.

OP here- my problem with hurdling is that I have to turn my body a considerable amount when I hurdle to get my trail leg over the barrier, and slow down considerably upon landing. Watching that video with Gari Roba makes me think that it will be easier to keep my hips facing forward and maintain momentum if I do a little tap-step on top.