Trespassing on HS Tracks?

jjjjjjj wrote:

We need to do something systematic about the tendency of hs/college to bar outsiders from their tracks for liability reasons, i.e. make common sense liability restrictions.

I agree with this, but I think that schools just use liability as an excuse. I'm not a personal injury guy, but does it seem that far-fetched that a reasonably prudent person would leave a 400-meter track open to the public? What on earth could possibly be negligent about that?

jjjjjjj wrote:

ridiculous. there's no student safety issue from athletes running on the track. if they were attacking students, then there would be a good reason to kick them out, arrest them, etc.

Well how are you supposed to know peoples' bad intentions until they are put into action?

As a high school public school athlete, I'm pretty torn about this issue. On one hand, I feel bad that adults are not able to get their training done because of rude athletic directors.

But I am glad there is some distance between adults that could be dangerous (I know the chances are 1/100000 but y'know, better safe than sorry these days) and high schoolers like me. I think that as long as school/practice is out of session anybody should be allowed to run on the track. No matter who the AD is.

If you guys really believe that any publicly funded facility should be open to the public, I really don't know what to say. Except maybe try to go spend a night in the White House, or any Governor's mansion, or even crash at the dorms of your local college. "Public" does not mean what you think it does.

Touche wrote:

If you guys really believe that any publicly funded facility should be open to the public, I really don't know what to say. Except maybe try to go spend a night in the White House, or any Governor's mansion, or even crash at the dorms of your local college. "Public" does not mean what you think it does.

That is what is called "false equivalence."

The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:

That is what is called "false equivalence."

No, it isn't. It may be more extreme but the point remains the same. Public does not equal "open to all." We are runners and we want to use tracks but public high schools, and especially private ones, are no more free for alls with admission than any of the above examples.

anon coach wrote:

Times are changing, and anyone who works for a high school school these days needs to be vigilant of people who may not "belong" on school grounds being there during the school day. Doesn't matter if you look like a runner and are going through the motions, how is that "old dude" to know you don't have a pistol in your bag? Too many disturbed people have lashed out in a way to get attention and caused decimation.

Our local HS recently put in a new track or (lets say, they resurfaced the track) and already they had vandalism. Apparently, it was after a football game. A bunch of kids/people from the game sprayed painted the new track. Now, they have put up a fenced gate and video cameras around the premises. Luckily the day I was there (one early Sat. morning) the grounds keeper came up to me and asked how much longer I was going to be there...I told him, I would like to finish my last couple laps and he was kind enough to let me. Later when I was done, I had asked him why they were going to close the track since I've never had any problems in the past with restrictions. His reply--the vandalism cost them something like 15k grand.

It's too bad and yeah, times are sure changing but I don't blame the schools for wanting to protect their property.

DKCCC wrote:

Well how are you supposed to know peoples' bad intentions until they are put into action?

You aren't. Most often you can't.

But I am glad there is some distance between adults that could be dangerous (I know the chances are 1/100000 but y'know, better safe than sorry these days) and high schoolers like me. I think that as long as school/practice is out of session anybody should be allowed to run on the track. No matter who the AD is.

If you're into wild suspicion of people in general, then your teachers would also be examples of adults that could be dangerous. Do you honestly think you are being made safer by having runners chased off of the track? Do you think someone with bad intentions would start things out with a track workout? Do you think someone with bad intentions would be deterred by a "No Trespassing" sign or a locked gate? Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "these days". School shootings, abductions, and other predation are nothing new and haven't been increasing lately as far as I am aware.

Touche wrote:

The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:

That is what is called "false equivalence."

No, it isn't. It may be more extreme but the point remains the same. Public does not equal "open to all." We are runners and we want to use tracks but public high schools, and especially private ones, are no more free for alls with admission than any of the above examples.

It is. The places you mentioned are all residences. The reason to keep them closed to the public is to protect the privacy and security of the people who live there. There is no such reason for a high school track to be closed.

Public does not necessarily mean open to all, sure, but why shouldn't a track be open to the public?

I never said they were obligated, champ.

Only that the fact that they are exempt BY LAW from these property taxes and are so thoroughly supported by the surrounding community who are BY LAW getting screwed over by property taxes...how about giving back a bit to the public and letting them use the track during out-of-school hours so long as there is no serious vandalism or other illegal activity? Their location makes it obviously attractive to area residents, so it seems a fair question to me.

Of course, they don't have to give back crap, but the only time I myself would choose to enforce trespassing on my property is if my property had been recently damaged or I felt my own person or property was somehow threatened by a given situation. Who wants to live in a community full of a**holes calling the cops on one another every time Fido decides to relieve himself on somebody else's tree?

Nobody, to my knowledge, has been hurt financially or physically by the public use of this track. They still don't want to open it up, fine. But if they handle other situations like this, they'll lose a a whole lot of the community's support.

Also, I don't think I'm wrong in calling them out for not having a uniform policy. Is it really OK with that a private institution abides by a trespassing policy that is essentially a question of an employee's subjective discrimination?

Touche wrote:

No, it isn't. It may be more extreme but the point remains the same. Public does not equal "open to all." We are runners and we want to use tracks but public high schools, and especially private ones, are no more free for alls with admission than any of the above examples.

Of course it's a false equivalence. And the word "public", in reference to parks, athletic facilities, restrooms, etc., most certainly does mean "open to all". The argument being that, although a public high school track may not be open for public use (please note the distinct uses of the word "public"), it should be open and there is no good reason to close it off.

Anyway, your point is ridiculous. You're saying I can't use a public school track for the same reason I can't walk into the White House and make a sandwich? What an inane comparison.

I ran on the local public h.s. track. the female teachers walked there during their lunch hour. a "good afternoon ladies" and a smile took care of any trespassing issues that could have arisen. ;-)

pjb wrote:

And the word "public", in reference to parks, athletic facilities, restrooms, etc., most certainly does mean "open to all". The argument being that, although a public high school track may not be open for public use (please note the distinct uses of the word "public"), it should be open and there is no good reason to close it off.

Anyway, your point is ridiculous. You're saying I can't use a public school track for the same reason I can't walk into the White House and make a sandwich? What an inane comparison.

Public does not mean open to all. Sorry. Seriously, ask a lawyer. There are different reason that you can't use a public high school track or walk into the white house but the point is those reasons trace back to the same principle. From a legal perspective, there are strings attached to any public facility. You can't wish that away. I don't understand why you are arguing this. Do you really think if you refused to leave a high school or college track when asked you wouldn't be arrested for trespassing and lose when you you fought it. If that's the case, seriously prove me wrong.

I read recently that the legislature of Mississippi is considering a bill that would require all public high schools to open their tracks to the public after hours is no practice is occurring. Apparently it was to stimulate exercise in a safe/free environment.

I tend not to use a lawyer in place of a dictionary. You seem not to comprehend subtle distinctions in the English language. Do you understand that common usage of the word "public" can have several distinct meanings?

Please stop being so utterly ridiculous.

Of course there are. First, I'll point out that the White House is certainly not a public facility by any common usage of that phrase, so your comparison is still asinine. Second, I'll point out that the argument being made is that a public (as in government-operated) school track, built with public (as in communal or tax-derived) funds, should be open for public (as in open to all) use.

No. Did you even read my goddamn post?

No you use "common usage" and what you believe "should" be in place of a dictionary. If you had read my post, the point I was making is that just because PUBLIC funds are used for something it does not give us a blanket right to access it. public in the terms I originally used it is publicly funded. I used it correctly; you changed it to suit your needs. Go trespass and tell the judge what you think "should" be based on your "common usage" of the word public. And please, put it on youtube. I will watch it repeatedly.

Sambouie wrote:

I read recently that the legislature of Mississippi is considering a bill that would require all public high schools to open their tracks to the public after hours is no practice is occurring. Apparently it was to stimulate exercise in a safe/free environment.

Interesting. Isn't Mississippi supposed to be the most obese state? Wonder if it'll go through.

Reminds me of a story:

A few years ago, the University of Toronto had a big student vote on whether or not to use raise an extra student few to build a very, very nice outdoor track and adjoining fitness facility, basically for student athletes and occasional intramural sports as far as I can tell. They call it the Ontario Center of Excellence of something like that.

A big part of selling this multi-million dollar purchase to a student body that doesn't run much and definitely doesn't care about running was convincing them that the track and the enclosed field would be available to them along with all the other facilities they get to use with their athletic center pass (pool, indoor track, weight rooms, etc).

Now that the thing is open, it really is quite beautiful. It's hosted some big meets (for Toronto) and I've seen Usain Bolt and Shaheen run there. I'd love to work out on it. Hours available for faculty, public member and "general" student use? 9:30-10:30am, Tues and Thurs. That's it. (Maybe this has changed, but that was the last time I looked it up. If someone from U of T athletics is reading this, please correct me.)

I work at U of T and tried to just walk in one morning at 7am when there was just a girls' lacrosse team doing drills (I normally run on the indoor track a few blocks away). Feeling a bit self-conscious, I just started to jog on the track. Holy moly. It might have been the first time those girls saw a 45 year-old man almost get physically subdued by two security guards. (I still don't know who called them, but they weren't impressed when I showed them my faculty/AC membership card.) I think I could have taken the little one.

This long story is all to say that you don't always have access to even the facilities you have paid for. You definitely don't have guaranteed access to the ones you haven't. But I do encouraging just jumping the fence.

If you own property in that school district, your taxes are paying his salary and helped to build that track. You have every right to run on it during reasonable hours. The track is paid for by the public and they have a right to use it when the school is not.

This is the life of a runner. Finding a track to work out on without getting hassled.

Remember the article with Manzano and crew training in a parking lot while having issues finding a place to train?

I've hopped a few fences and "stole" time on a track before.

What a pain.