What does "oxygen debt" mean? Is that term used today?

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13 years ago 03/15/2012 9:00am EDT

re: experienced coach

But it was a simple question, and instead of giving the right answer, you admitted you make up stories so your athletes don't fall asleep. And it's curious that you still defend all of your efforts to avoid answering the original question.

That's an interesting link about Level 3 certification. One of the books on the suggested reading list "Physiology of Sport and Exercise" gives a great answer to the question, with a nice graphs, under "Postexercise Oxygen Consumption" here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YHZtv4XKeCMC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123

Some selected quotes:

"This excess oxygen consumption, which exceeds that required at rest, was traditionally referred to as "oxygen debt". The more common term today is excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC).

"The belief was that by examining the postexercise oxygen consumption, one could estimate the amount of anaerobic activity that had occurred."

"However, more recently researchers have concluded that the classical explanation of EPOC is too simplistic."

13 years ago 03/15/2012 5:38pm EDT

re: experienced coach

experienced coach wrote:
I’m back!
Yes, I was away this weekend coaching some of my runners to prize-winning performances as well as inspiring and motivating future generations of runners with the talks I gave.
And I did it all without reciting from a physiology textbook or medical dictionary the things that a runner experiences on a cellular level. Since you are so concerned that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth gets out there I am going to leave that talk to you “experts”.
I will continue my ignorance on the subject by explaining it to those interested runners and telling them what they can see, hear and feel in themselves and other runners and not waste their time talking about biological reactions and processes on the microscopic level (especially when that is not what they are asking me).
Perhaps you are so sure of yourself that it’s your way or the highway, maybe you will mock and ridicule some of my contemporaries like Dr. Vigil and Dr. Daniels who, last time I checked, talk about the subject in the same manner as myself. And if you’ve got the whole thing memorized, well good for you!
“Never memorize something that you can look up.”
-Albert Einstein
If their opinions count for nothing maybe you will listen to this youngster...
"What I can't stand is these guys who make a cult out of running. It ruins the whole thing to take it too seriously."
-Frank Shorter
“The marathon is all about energy management. I had planned to run it like a track race with strategic surges to blow up my competitors by putting them into oxygen debt, so that is the way I prepared.”
-Frank Shorter
Humans may be the only animals that can consciously control their breathing. In the wild they will run until they collapse from exhaustion, perhaps because they are running for their lives.
And if you continue to detest and loath my coaching style and methods maybe you can try to take away my USATF Level III Coaching Certification.
If you are still having a Manic Monday, I would suggest you take a chill pill and wash it down with some dihydrogen monoxide.
[quote]rivas wrote:
The adrenal medulla within the adrenal gland secretes epinephrine and norepinephrine.../quote]
Did you corner someone at a cocktail party and tell them this? I can picture the runners you told this to rolling their eyes asking, "is this going to be on the test?"

7/10.

At the very least.

13 years ago 03/15/2012 8:40pm EDT

re: Limp Kitten

The body requires a maintained pH of 7.4.

Within the blood there is the bicarbonate/carbonic acid buffer system that has the role of bringing C02 (which lowers the pH) from the tissues to the lungs for exhalation.

When the level of exertion or exercise increases, there is an increased rate of 02 inhalation with a corresponding increased rate of CO2 exhalation in order to bring the pH of the blood and tissues back up to 7.4.

The debt part is when whatever runner has potentially over exerted themselves and created a sustained lower pH in their body which ililcits the involuntary response of increased inhalation and exhalation which is the same idea as being "out of breath"

13 years ago 03/16/2012 9:04am EDT

re: LM

I am starting to think he is a troll also. how could anyone be that ignorant

13 years ago 03/21/2012 12:59pm EDT

re: please stop

please stop wrote:
how could anyone be that ignorant

Typical LR troll tactic. Take the spotlight off yourself by calling someone else a troll.

The OP asked a question, I gave a clear, concise and common sense answer that was correct on the first page (which you failed to read) and then the "experts" piled on with all kinds of regurgitated paragraphs they saw in a physiology text or medical dictionary. I stated with my decades of coaching experience I would stick with my "simplified" explanation when young runners want to know and if they are desperate for more knowledge they can do that research on their own time and in their own way.

Spring is in the air, is it in your running steps?

Perhaps you can step away from the computer and get outside and get some fresh air and a fresh perspective.

I will continue to advise and inspire runners who are in it for the long run.

http://espn.go.com/blog/high-school/track-and-xc/post/_/id/2342/get-smart-coaches-develop-winning-formulas-through-experience-listening

13 years ago 03/21/2012 1:06pm EDT

re: Limp Kitten

This thread is a prime example of why this country is in so much oxygen debt.

13 years ago 03/21/2012 3:05pm EDT

re: experienced coach

experienced coach wrote:
rivas wrote:
What an accomplishment! anyone and everyone that pays for that certification gets it, you’re making yourself sound ridiculously ignorant.
Level 3 Certification?
"anyone and everyone"?
http://usatf.org/Resources-for---/Coaches/Coaching-Education/Level-3.aspx
Your credibility is starting to wane.
Do you know one person that has Level 3?
No, not that you've heard of them,
but personally know them and what
experience they have coaching the sport.
If you make outrageous claims,
how can anyone trust you and your previous opinions?

Obviously you have to have coaching experience and have one athlete that has qualified and competed at the national level. Big deal! Personally, not that big of an accomplishment to be but if that’s the best you got, good for you.

I have level II and can teach level I. When I went through level I and II, no one failed. Everyone that pays for it will get a certificate. That was my point. USATF and level I/II/III coaching school is a money making business. It is what it is.

13 years ago 03/21/2012 6:51pm EDT

re: please stop

please stop wrote:
I am starting to think he is a troll also. how could anyone be that ignorant

I hope and pray he's a troll, because it's too depressing to imagine that there are people (let alone coaches) who are so aggressively ignorant out there.

13 years ago 03/21/2012 7:15pm EDT

re: hold the phone

This whole thread is hilarious

Tomorrow I am going to warm up for 2 miles and so some strides, then try to run an all out 800 meters. As I have not done speed work specific for an 800 in 30 years, I will begin to gasp at 300 meters, and fall out at 500 - 600. That will be oxygen debt for sure.

13 years ago 03/21/2012 7:19pm EDT

re: experienced coach

I read all of your posts, nowhere did you provide a clear, concise and common sense answer.

The OP wanted a real answer, not something oversimplified, inefficient, and wrong.

But if you are a troll, good job

13 years ago 03/21/2012 8:01pm EDT

re: please stop

please stop wrote:
nowhere did you provide a clear, concise and common sense answer.
The OP wanted something oversimplified, inefficient, and wrong.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I guess that makes us alike, because I didn't see any of your contributions answering the OP's question either.

13 years ago 03/21/2012 9:00pm EDT

re: experienced coach

13 years ago 03/22/2012 6:12am EDT

re: experienced coach

I won't touch "clear, concise, and common sense", but you did not give a "correct" answer on the first, or any subsequent, page.You repeatedly said that fit athletes can avoid oxygen debt, by becoming fit, and by selecting a pace they can handle. This only happens at really slow, purely aerobic paces. Oxygen debt cannot be avoided in intense workouts and races. Even the fittest, world class athletes, cannot avoid incurring oxygen debt when racing (or during a 60 second 400m), except maybe when racing ultra-marathons.Maybe your usage gives practical guidance and motivation for the over-enthusiastic newbie who learns pace judgement the hard way, but it's the wrong answer for a middle aged runner, away from the track and in front of his computer, who asks, what does it really mean?The OP said he was in high school in the 80's. This is simply the wrong time and place for your "simplified explanation when young runners want to know". We know that "Limp Kitten" has already heard all the "stories" from his old coach, and never knew what it meant. Now that he's all grown up, he wants a real answer. He was "desperate for more knowledge", and posted his question here as part of his "research on (his) own time and in (his) own way".

experienced coach wrote:
The OP asked a question, I gave a clear, concise and common sense answer that was correct on the first page (which you failed to read) and then the "experts" piled on with all kinds of regurgitated paragraphs they saw in a physiology text or medical dictionary. I stated with my decades of coaching experience I would stick with my "simplified" explanation when young runners want to know and if they are desperate for more knowledge they can do that research on their own time and in their own way.

13 years ago 03/22/2012 4:10pm EDT

re: rekrunner

Dear "desperate for more knowledge"

...aka Limp Kitten,

I am glad that Coach Mark Rowland has chimed in on the matter where he talks about runners that can be obsessive in their search for knowledge and faster times, but that sometimes this information overload does not guarantee success.

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=25600

I like smarter runners, but even they can still do dumb things and make rookie mistakes.

If you do not agree than here is more reading material for those striving for answers in the area of oxygen debt.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=1280580&thread=1280452

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=2289921&id=2886540#2886540

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2293855&thread=2289921

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2514108&thread=2513111

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3858002&thread=3857413

As for Rivas...

here is your chance to get your Level 3 Certification

http://www.runnerspace.com/gprofile.php?do=title&title_id=585&mgroup_id=5