To round it off: Here is the concept that people I _valued_ /educating/ me use as a yard stick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_deviation_diagram.svg
To round it off: Here is the concept that people I _valued_ /educating/ me use as a yard stick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_deviation_diagram.svg
Yes, it is not PC to extol the virtues of certain nations (their people) over other.
In Saudi, most of my British colleagues have no intention of returning to Blighty, citing random crime, and other anti social behavior which puts a real dampener on quality of life. My colleagues, in their large majority, have married Thais, Filipinas, Indonesians and other Asian women, and they have a much nicer life in countries like Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia, not to mention that the crime rates in those countries (although much lower per capita income) are very low, especially when you take poverty and lack of opportunity into account.
If you are working class in England, standards of living have gone down, and in addition, in this modern era, the old system of knowing one's neighbors and feeling a sense of 'connection' with them has all but disappeared.
Talking with a teacher today, who will be retiring on the Kenyan coast in Mombasa, which he claims is a much better option compared with the UK.
Other Brits are applying to move to Aussie and Kiwi in large numbers. It is really a very overrated country. British politeness and manners? Just a myth really, to attract gullible tourists.
But I digress from the original post about Rothlin. Most on this site will concur that it is extremely unlikely that he would have taken an illicit product to aid performance.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
So you attack Britain as a reason why a Swiss guy wouldn't take drugs.
Saudi Arabia isn't an overrated country. It's just as disgusting as everyone makes it out to be.
In defence of Saudi - it is a family oriented country, where you can walk in the street at any time, without fear of attack by thugs. The only danger you have in this oil rich country, is losing your life in a car accident, as Saudi has the dubious distinction of topping the world list in car accidents per capita.
The social situation in Britain is not very rosy, with many working class areas becoming 'no go areas' for many people at night, and even during the day. Lots of feral youth in the UK looking for a scrap just for the sake of a scrap. It is depressing. Who wants to live in a situation like that? No thank you. Very overrated country - Blighty, and sorry if that offends some people. Life is short, why waste your life and get stressed in the UK, when there are much more palatable countries overseas? The figures speak for themselves - net migration away from UK has been rising, with no end in sight.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
Ghost,A few facts to add to the discussion:1. Swiss athletes who doped: Alex Zuelle, Oscar Camenzind, Laurent Dufaux.2. Net migration to the UK was +252,000 in 2011, the largest ever recorded.
ghost wrote:
In defence of Saudi - it is a family oriented country, where you can walk in the street at any time, without fear of attack by thugs. The only danger you have in this oil rich country, is losing your life in a car accident, as Saudi has the dubious distinction of topping the world list in car accidents per capita.
The social situation in Britain is not very rosy, with many working class areas becoming 'no go areas' for many people at night, and even during the day. Lots of feral youth in the UK looking for a scrap just for the sake of a scrap. It is depressing. Who wants to live in a situation like that? No thank you. Very overrated country - Blighty, and sorry if that offends some people. Life is short, why waste your life and get stressed in the UK, when there are much more palatable countries overseas? The figures speak for themselves - net migration away from UK has been rising, with no end in sight.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.
By the
ghost wrote:
In defence of Saudi - it is a family oriented country, where you can walk in the street at any time, without fear of attack by thugs. The only danger you have in this oil rich country, is losing your life in a car accident, as Saudi has the dubious distinction of topping the world list in car accidents per capita.
The social situation in Britain is not very rosy, with many working class areas becoming 'no go areas' for many people at night, and even during the day. Lots of feral youth in the UK looking for a scrap just for the sake of a scrap. It is depressing. Who wants to live in a situation like that? No thank you. Very overrated country - Blighty, and sorry if that offends some people. Life is short, why waste your life and get stressed in the UK, when there are much more palatable countries overseas? The figures speak for themselves - net migration away from UK has been rising, with no end in sight.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.
Saudi Arabia palatable? Do they stone female adulterers to death there still? How about those delightful public beheadings and amputations?
The only reason why it's so 'safe' is because people are so controlled by the state and by Islam that everybody is so shit scared to actually live their lives.
What's it like being a woman in Saudi? How about a homosexual?.
The social situation in the UK really isn't a bad as you seem to think. Your Thai bride purchasing mates are just justifying their leaving. It's no worse than anywhere else, and the whole 'no go area' thing is nonsense. Someone was comparing places to Rio and Mexico City the other day. Absolute rubbish.
Saudi Arabia still has family values, something lost in translation in the West, in general.
Women are beginning to get more power in Saudi. A friend recently visited the flagship new University - King Saud University of Science and Technology(www.kaust.edu.sahttp://www.kaust.edu.sa/media/features/sparkinginnovation.html)
At KAUST (which rivals MIT, and Imperial College) - men and women are allowed to mingle within the confines of the campus! This is an impressive step, with benediction from King Abdullah himself (may Allah thank him, Mashallah!).
Yes, there are aspects of Saudi which are a challenge (initially) like the 5 times a day prayer times, when all the shops close and you can't do any business. But the benefits here for expats far outweigh the disadvantages.
Most of my colleagues have been here for over 10 years, and keep on re- signing new contracts. Why would they not, with a decent salary of between 14,000 to 20,000 Saudi Riyals per month, free housing (villas for the married, and nice 2 room apartments for singles), plus free travel home to point of origin each year, and many, many vacations. Each year we get around 4 vacations. 3 'short ones - 9 days to 21 days, and one 'long one' (in summer) 2- 3 months. This year we finish our year on May 30, and start date in the fall/autumn is August 25 - so 3 months paid holiday it is. The calendar changes each year because of the Islamic calendar and when Ramadan falls.
One other thing about Saudi - very little age discrimination. I have many colleagues in their late 60s and even a few in their 70s. We have one Oxford graduate who has been teaching here for over 30 years and turns 80 soon. In the west this venerable gentleman would have been put out to pasture many moons ago!
One other poster mentioned some cheating Swiss athletes. Yes, of course there are bad eggs everywhere. But it is rare in Switzerland. They (the swiss) are basically hardwired to be honest and ethical. It is a combination of genetics and social upbringing.
But we digress from the original idea. Rothlin has been a major championships medallist several times. A guy like that will be in the spotlight, and 'targeted' by the doping authorities. He will have been tested many times, and he always comes out clean. He is unlikely to transgress the rules, with everything to lose, in the twilight of his career.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
Men and women are allowed to mingle together? Honestly. This is a fantastic thing.
As for Saudi having family values. Yeah, the man does what he wants and the woman looks after the kids and does as she's told. If she cheats she gets executed, if he cheats she gets executed. Nice.
Maybe that's your sort of thing ghost.
Vile country. The world would be much better off without it.
I arrived in Saudi, in 2008, (from Korea, and previous to that Taiwan) with some concerns, about the things you mention. In actual fact, things are really quite ok in Saudi, and the vast majority of my students at KFUPM are rather charming and nice, albeit lazy. Arabs in general are charming, friendly and personable. They are hardwired to be so. Their charm will seduce even the most sullen of Brits.
Of course, I am biased, because we cull the best students in Saudi (the top 2% high school leavers), because our University (www.kfupm.edu.sa) is highly selective.
Saudi is a country where Sharia law is applied, and as a guest and worker in this country, it would not be advisable for me to comment negatively on this. Perhaps we, as expats, are somewhat isolated from the 'real Saudi' because we live on compounds where we have little contact with the ordinary Saudis.
Women are not as badly treated as you would have your readers believe. In fact many Saudi women are happy to live in Saudi, because they are fulfilling a traditional role that women have lost in the West - that is a role of provider to her children and husband. This is the way things should be. Playing with nature and expecting women to be leaders in the workplace is not logical, because nature cannot be tampered with. Women's intrinsice nurturing and empathetic nature is not suited to the masculine world of dominance and aggression.
In the West, there is now a 'disconnect' between families. The extended family has all but disappeared for millions of families, and if you are single - even worse, you will live in an isolated way, with precious little contact with your neighbors such is the value of privacy in the rich West. In Saudi, the idea that one cannot know one's neighbors is completely alien. Muslims are extremely sociable and friendly. The tiny minority of Muslims who cause problems are really not representative of Islam.
Islam is a religion of peace and understanding. The true Muslim recognizes all the faiths, including Judaism and Christianity. There is a hadith in the Qu'Oran which states that 'men of the book' from other religions (referring to Jews and Christians) should be respected and afforded great compassion.
If you read the Qu'Oran, you will come to realize that it is a beautiful guide to life, because the Qu'Oran mentions all kinds of details of life which are highly logical, practical and good for humans. Islam offers a 'road map' on how to live life and take care of your family. Nowhere in the Qu'Oran will you find reference to comments about violence or advocating the killing or harming of people of other faiths.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
Dear god, Ghost your posts are quite frankly embarrassing, welcome to 2011 rather than 1953, as a fellow Brit your views on everything from Rothlin to Women's roles to Britain today are quite frankly embarrassing.
I live here in the UK and the idea that there are no go areas and feral gangs in the towns and cities across Britain is ridiculous, how long is it since you lived here? I'm guessing you are reading the Daily mail online whilst sitting back in your rocking chair.
Having spent time in Saudi and living here in the UK, I cannot for a single second see why you would champion a culture where the people 9other than the ruling elite) are completely intimidated by a state that dictates the lives of it's citizens in everything from what appears in their newspapers, on their TV's and even which table they must sit at in a restaurant. I'm guessing you are single and have no grasp whatsoever about women and what they are capable of. To think that they should be chained to the kitchen sink or spend their days nursing infants is embarrassing. I'm all for family life and a good home life, but one that is shared by both parents, the idea that daddy gets up, puts on his bowler hat and toddles off to work until evening every day is long long gone.
I'm sure that you realise that the Saudi government and Wahidism Muslims are the biggest funder of extremist islam, suppression and keeping the status quo.
As far as Lombard is concerned, he dissapeared because he was cheating again, how else do you explain going from running 25.50 for 5 miles to winning the irish nationals by a street in a month then suddenly dissappearing again very quickly.
Get with it and start living in the real world!
ghost wrote:
as a guest and worker in this country, it would not be advisable for me to
They bought your soul.
You project your lost purity onto a marahton runner.
Barakus Obama wrote:
Yoyo Mama wrote:I agree.
Great run by the 37 year old Rothlin.
Yet we have another thread here on Letsrun ripping the older Haile G, who led much of the way and did run a 2:08, beating Rothlin
Because Haile needed a 2:06.XX
And it was clear that in the 30k mark Haile was burned.
I am confused. Did the older Haile G not beat Rothlin?
The concept of the family is broke in the West. Look at the continuing soaring rates of divorce, isolation, suicide, and general depression in society.
Yes, Saudi society is somewhat controlled, but if you were to measure the subjective notion of happiness, it is highly likely that Saudi citizens would score higher on the happiness scale compared with Brits and many other Europeans and North Americans. Suicide, depression and social isolation are unheard of here in Saudi. The family is all important and without family we are nothing. Saudi Arabia is a collective society. In Britain and the UK is an individualistic society, and look what that has resulted in!
The vast majority of my British colleagues in Saudi, have no desire to return to the UK. Most of them have elected domicile in places like Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai (Thailand), Manila and the provinces (Philippines), Bali, Lombok and Surabaya (Indonesia). In all of those Asian places the quality of life is far higher compared with the UK.
The 'Daily Mail' UK, is considered a 'low brow' newspaper, but it is a good barometer of crime and social anomie in the UK. Those articles and photos in the mail are not fiction. They are representative of what is happening in the UK, and as they say "It ain't pretty!"
By the same token, people in the West are fed a lot of misleading information about places like Saudi and Islam. This means most people have a pre conceived notion about society in places like Saudi. The reality is a rather peaceful nation, where families live in harmony, and where children are brought up as part of extended families. This makes Saudis great social animals, because most children have between 4-8 brothers/sisters. This makes them very skilled at interpersonal communication.
In the Qu'Oran, we learn that nature should not be ignored. When it says that women should behave in a traditional way and be primarily homemakers, that is actually good for society, because it allows men and women to exercise their natural roles. The man as the provider and the women as the nuturer and child care parent in the home. Doing otherwise is not natural in the long run. Look how screwed up many Westerners are with their neuroses, paranoia, bipolar disorders etc. The reason for this is faulty upbringing where boys and girls are told they are equal and should strive for the same goals. This is unnatural, and as the Muslims remind us, anything that you do which is unnatural is paid for (negatively) somewhere down the line.
Ghost in Saudi.
, apply today
People are only happy in Saudi because they don't know any different and they're not allowed anything any different.
You ever been to a stoning ghost? Was it good? Did you join in?
What about the London riots, Mr 'Trollism' - were you a witness of those appalling incidents in which innocent people were attacked by all those feral despical youths that the UK is so good at producing?
The UK - a country where lazy, good for nothing people are 'rewarded' for being lazy and staying at home, through benefits which are paid for by honest people in Britain who do a day's work.
The UK - a country where PC has taken such a majestic stand, that one cannot talk freely in the workplace or other, without fear of being descended upon by the PC police. This can result in loss of job, welfare, and/or public humiliation.
The UK, a country where old people often die alone and ignored by their neighbors. Many cases of old people being 'discovered' weeks or months after death.
The UK - a country which constantly shuns Europe, but still wants a piece of the cake, without contributing anything.
Now, sorry, if that sounds negative, but that is the way it is for me, and most of my British colleagues in Saudi, who have also voted with their feet to leave poor, old, Blighty. Very overrated country, as all those Brits who have moved to greener pastures (OZ, NZ, U.S., Canada, Southern Europe) concur.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
Right, let me get this straight.
You're attacking the freedom of speech in the UK and you're living in Saudi Arabia. You've already admitted in this thread that you're scared to criticise Saudi on letsrun because you're worried about reprisals.
Everybody who emigrates bemoans the nation they moved from, it's part of the justification process.
Nobody is saying that the UK is perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination. But people are free to criticise and complain as much as they want, something that people are not allowed to do where you are.
From what started out as an interesting thread about Victor Rothlin; as usual has now degenerated into this.
Brojos please could you call time on this thread before it becomes personal?
Monk - you are right, and thanks for bringing back to order. Expats (and you are one, Monk) vent from time to time. My last point is that you should not believe everything you hear about Saudi. If that were the case, you would not have expats staying here for up to 30 years. They (the Saudis) really lay out the red carpet. Come here, Monk, and you will see for yourself.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
ghost wrote:My last point is that you should not believe everything you hear about Saudi.
Your first good comment after some disastrous failures. "Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see." Seems to be like you're quite out of touch with what happens in the UK right now? Switch of BBC World and take a trip.
And, for the record, Roethlin still is a doper.
