Ben Scheetz sets D3 Indoor 800m record - 1:47.43

Jeff Marvel really proved he had a lot of gumption by running back to back 1:51's. Congrats to him and his compatriot Connor "Most Inconsistent Racer" Rose for running a 4:08

Thanks for bringing us back on topic.

Yes, Amherst had Rob Mitchell in the late '90s, who has the school record in the indoor 15 and mile. Mile record is 4:03-mid, I believe, which Scheetz was just off of with his 4:03-high earlier this month.

You might be speaking about Erik Nedeau who is solely the men's head coach now (previously coached both teams up until this year) who was more of a 1500 meter stud although he has a very respectable 800 PR. It is, however, the 1500 where he medaled at World Champs and also where he was 4th at the Oly Trials.

The Amherst mid-distance squad has always been something special. Ned has the ability to take these kids who come in with solid credentials and scare up one or two beasts that develop in their junior and senior years. Scheetz is simply the latest example. It's great to see the program continue to be successful.

While, yes, there are better athletes out there in D1, I don't think you can dismiss Scheetz as a big fish in a small pond. His performance is praiseworthy because he entered college with respectable but relatively modest PRs well suited to the level of competition at Amherst, and managed to show steady, significant improvement.

http://www.directathletics.com/athletes/track/2144689.html

Impressive. Far too many DIII athletes enter with better times and just coast through without improving.

Waukegan Illinois wrote:

Peter Kosgei still the best ever DIII runner

Karl. Paranya. Next Question.

Waukegan Illinois wrote:

Peter Kosgei still the best ever DIII runner

Karl. Paranya. Next Question.[/quote]

Bringing out the heavy hitters. Nice! Karl was the man in DIII, in the mid to late 90s, both in xc and in track.

Symmonds has to be in the conversation for one of the best DIII guys all-time as well.

Who could top Symmonds as the best D3 track runner? Especially at 800 and above? The guy won 7 outdoor titles and never lost at nationals, right? Then after he graduates, he goes and gets 2nd at USA's in 1:45. Peter Kosgei was a phenomenal D3 runner and might have been the best overall D3 distance runner, but Symmonds was running at a different level when he finished college than anyone has ever been at the D3 level.

And great run from Sheetz. Really solid splits from the front. Hopefully he can get in a good race outdoors and set himself up with some opportunities after graduating.

airway constriction wrote:

Who could top Symmonds as the best D3 track runner? Especially at 800 and above? The guy won 7 outdoor titles and never lost at nationals, right? Then after he graduates, he goes and gets 2nd at USA's in 1:45. Peter Kosgei was a phenomenal D3 runner and might have been the best overall D3 distance runner, but Symmonds was running at a different level when he finished college than anyone has ever been at the D3 level.

Edwin. Moses. I believe he's still the NCAA all-levels record holder for 400H.

Morehouse is D2.

airway constriction wrote:

Who could top Symmonds as the best D3 track runner? Especially at 800 and above? The guy won 7 outdoor titles and never lost at nationals, right? Then after he graduates, he goes and gets 2nd at USA's in 1:45. Peter Kosgei was a phenomenal D3 runner and might have been the best overall D3 distance runner, but Symmonds was running at a different level when he finished college than anyone has ever been at the D3 level.

And great run from Sheetz. Really solid splits from the front. Hopefully he can get in a good race outdoors and set himself up with some opportunities after graduating.

Karl was a nine time NCAA D3 champ (4 at 800m and 5 at 1500m), and he was also NCAA runner up twice. Most importantly, he is the only DIII guy to ever break 4:00 in the mile(3:57.6) or 3:40 in the 1500m (3:39.83). Karl was also a 3 time XC all-american, placing 5th as a junior and 2nd as a senior.

On the merits of his XC accomplishments and his 3:57 mile, I would place him above Symmonds, if ranking the all-time best DIII runners.

However, if we are talking about the best DIII athlete ever, regardless of their event, I would have to agree with CliffSmith. Edwin Moses was in class of his own. His DIII 400H record is an absurd 47.45.....this is 2+ seconds faster than any other DIII guy ever (Derek Toshner is 2nd all-time with 50.09). While in college, Moses won the 1976 Olympics in a then world record time of 47.63......Then there's his if you think about his post-collegiate career, there's no contest.... 122 consecutive win streak, one more Olympic gold (1984) and two world championship gold (1983 and 1987).

Sorry, I had a brain fart in my previous post. Here's what I meant to say, at the end:

*Then there's this, if you think about his post-collegiate career, there's no contest.... 122 consecutive win streak, one more Olympic gold (1984) and two world championship gold (1983 and 1987).

Throw Dan Mayer into the discussion with his 5k and 10k times, won some titles too. Kosgei is up there, but there are definitely guys that are without question better.

I agree with you all now Edwin Moses is undoubtedly the greatest and the odds are he will never be topped. Didn't realize was a D3 athlete. Although for 800 and up, I'd still say Symmonds was better on the track than Paranya because of his 1:45 and never losing nationals (Symmonds would have almost certainly had 9 titles with 5 years of college), but it's close. When you factor in XC though, I'd go with Paranya too.

Folks are talking like the season is over. DIII hasn't even had indoor conference meets yet. Scheetz might have a chance to break Paranya's 4:00.96 mile record. He ran 4:03.95 recently, and with the boost of confidence of that 800 record, who knows.

Also, Ben Sathre and Michael Schmidt ran 14:10, and could break 14:00 in a fast 5K. Mayer's 13:53.17 record would be tough though. Are there any lists with the 3000 record? Sathre ran an 8:07.02 which is quite good.

Sheetz won't run another fast mile indoors because there's only one weekend left before indoor nationals. It'd be stupid for him to try to go kill himself a week before he goes after (several) national titles.

To get back on topic, I'd really like to know what Sheetz did between 2010 outdoor and 2010-11 indoors, as this seemed to be his breakout year. Looking at his direct athletics page, he went from a good D3 runner (48-49, 1'54-55, 2'32) to an absolute super-star (47.5, 1'48, 2'29). And then it obviously continued into this year (2'28, 1'47, 4'03). I wonder if there's anyone on the Amherst team that could speak a bit about what might have sparked that huge improvement, especially at 800m.

I could see Sheetz being a very good 800m-mile type, since he clearly has the leg speed to run fast. I hope he runs the Olympic Trials in June - it'll be exciting to see how he runs with the big dogs...

He's got over 2 seconds on the next guy in the 800. I'd like to see him go for a 4 minute mile this weekend, but I don't think IC4A or ECAC is going to be a fast enough meet unless he has a teammate rabbit him somehow.

Here are the DIII all-time top 10 lists

Men Indoors:

http://www.cmsathletics.org/ncaa/track/d3indoortracklist-m.pdf

Women Indoors:

http://www.cmsathletics.org/ncaa/track/d3indoortracklist-w.pdf

Men Outdoors:http://www.cmsathletics.org/ncaa/track/d3tracklist-m.pdf

Women Outdoors:

http://www.cmsathletics.org/ncaa/track/d3tracklist-w.pdf

airway constriction wrote:

Who could top Symmonds as the best D3 track runner? Especially at 800 and above? The guy won 7 outdoor titles and never lost at nationals, right? Then after he graduates, he goes and gets 2nd at USA's in 1:45. Peter Kosgei was a phenomenal D3 runner and might have been the best overall D3 distance runner, but Symmonds was running at a different level when he finished college than anyone has ever been at the D3 level.

And great run from Sheetz. Really solid splits from the front. Hopefully he can get in a good race outdoors and set himself up with some opportunities after graduating.

No one touches Andrew Rock. Until Symmonds can take Olympic Gold or WC Silver, Rock has him covered.

Symmonds was a beast in college, but no one was more dominant than Rock. He destroyed people.

WIAC wrote:

airway constriction wrote:

Who could top Symmonds as the best D3 track runner? Especially at 800 and above? The guy won 7 outdoor titles and never lost at nationals, right? Then after he graduates, he goes and gets 2nd at USA's in 1:45. Peter Kosgei was a phenomenal D3 runner and might have been the best overall D3 distance runner, but Symmonds was running at a different level when he finished college than anyone has ever been at the D3 level.

And great run from Sheetz. Really solid splits from the front. Hopefully he can get in a good race outdoors and set himself up with some opportunities after graduating.

No one touches Andrew Rock. Until Symmonds can take Olympic Gold or WC Silver, Rock has him covered.

Symmonds was a beast in college, but no one was more dominant than Rock. He destroyed people.

Have you really never heard of Edwin Moses? He'd have been close to beating Rock in the 400 while going over hurdles.

pendinghealthy/readytocompete wrote:

Have you really never heard of Edwin Moses? He'd have been close to beating Rock in the 400 while going over hurdles.

I thought it was said upstream that Morehouse was DII. If not then yes, obviously Moses.

Rock is second, and that's nothing against Symmonds.