The cinders at Cambridge weren't real cinders, it was a clay track becuase they don't make cinders anymore. I train on a cinder track and its much faster than the clay. The cinder track is definitely slower than what I race on but a good cinder track isn't too slow. Maybe a second a lap in a 5000m?
This is too good to keep off the first page.
In January or February of 1968, I was fortunate enough to be on the infield at Madison Square Garden for some indoor meet, and I got a chance to meet Tracy Smith, who later that year would be one of the US runners in the Olympic 10,000 meter. I was a high school kid so I was thrilled to say the least. T&FN had just come out and it reported that recently Smith had run 72x220 in a workout, so I asked him about it. He was very sheepish about it and not pleased that what he thought he had said in private was being published, because he said Igloi would be furious with him. Apparently, all of the workouts were secret. Being obnoxious (I was in high school), I kept pressing him about the workouts, and what I remember is three things. First, that some of the workouts (Smith was willing to talk only in general terms--really, it was very striking, and I was just a kid)sounded as if they were aerobic workouts with varying paces between the run part and the jog part. Second, some of the workouts varied in terms of the pace of the running part--everything being divided into three, for which Igloi had technical names, but seemed to me to be relaxed, pushed a bit, and pushed hard. Third, workout was tailored to each individual.
dc449 wrote:
Does any one have any insight/personal experience with his methods?I know it was very interse with track workouts something like 5 days a week (!), and most of it was short reps like 150s and 200s. Obviously, his training worked for Schul and Beatty. I also recall that Billy Mills did a lot for fast 100s on quite a few days a week which seems similar. The suprising part to me is the fact that there is little aerobic development, and Ive heard their longest runs were an hour. I could see a 800/1500 runner getting away with this, but 5k guys? opinions anyone?
In response to Mike's (Javaman) comment about cautioned not to obtain Bob's training manual, that was never the case. I believe that Mike might have misunderstood my commentary on the training manual. If I recall correctly, I said that it is a very valuable tool, but you have to understand the training regime and consistently be doing the workouts.
I ran for Santa Monica TC, so I have experience with Igloi-based training. I'll answer a few questions based upon what I read (I quit on page 1).
I wasn't happy with my mileage, but I trained primarily with 800/1500 guys and I could have done more a.m. and Sunday running. It's easy enough to run 100++, assuming you can handle four hard workouts a week.
The difference between "speed" and "swing" is based upon your turnover rate/stride length. "Speed" is faster turnover (shorter strides), while "swing" is slower, longer strides. Theoretically, at sub-max levels and less than race distance, you should be able to run similar paces for either, so you're developing different muscle groups (and/or reducing tearing of muscle fibers) without sacrificing the VO2 benefit of the workout.
I ran a few "all out" efforts, but a lot more at "good" pace and occasionally "hard" pace. One year we were on the infield at Santa Monica College, and we seldom saw a stopwatch. The next year, on the new Mondo track, we saw a watch far more often. I don't know that it made much difference to our racing performance.
Workouts lasted 2+ hours often, but I loved every minute of it. I was in my early 20's then, so it beat working.
P.S. -- 100's and 200's are not "alactic," as the alactic system is only good for about six seconds, as I understand.
Touche'. Better to learn the regime from the coach (with the obvious benefits) than from a book, IMHO.
Bump
Bumped again due to a request.
Anyone else want comment on Igloi and his advocates' training methods?
no one?
Anyone training under Laslo Tabori that reads letsrun.com? I'd like to know how Laslo schedules training in order to compare it to how his coach, Mihaly Igoi, trained him. His website shows and example week, somewhat vague, which differs a little. I am wondering if Laslo learned over the years that a different approach, modified Igloi, worked better. I ask this because I know that Bob Schul modified it some to fit his idea of what worked best. Thanks. Tinman
As I understand it, from observation and from speaking with Head Coach Ron Alice, Laslo is now working with the middle distance runners at USC in Los Angeles. I specifically saw him at last weekend's USC-UCLA dual meet held at USC. He spent most of the meet comfortably in the (only) shade, over by the track shed. He was constantly surrounded by athletes.
Ok we can stablish that every runner can be a good coach. Not to be mean, I just want to see if Tabori had modified it also like Schul did. By the way, whatever hapenned to Beatty?
Bit of info. on Jim Beatty; he injured his foot badly about a year before the Olympic Games at Tokyo, requiring 26 stitches. He said he was never able to train at the same level after that. Prior to that, he held 3 or 4 world records. Tinman
Ouch. 26 stiches? That's got to be one huge gash!
I would like to stress that like Coach Igloi's training being very individualized those using his theories now are very individualized. The basis of their training is using Igloi's theories and fitting them to each individual runner with the current coach's variations. Each Coach does that slightly differently. It is my observation that each Igloi disciple has added rest days, lightened the load some and most seem to have added some longer running. Modifications are creeping in. But then again Coach Igloi's theories and training methods were continually evolving. Every set of an Igloi workout was administered in person and watched by him before the next set was revealed. That is true hands- on coaching. How else can a coach know how his athlete has reacted to that set?
In Igloi's heyday the taining was very technical, very difficult and very intense.
Most training seems to have gotten away from such a hands on system.
Beatty has said that in effect he said "Coach, I want to put myself in your hands. I will do whatever you tell me to do to get the type of results I think I can achieve" That is the only way Coach Igloi would have it with any athlete.
Beatty went on to be the first indoor 4 minute miler in Feb 1962 in 3:58.9, set the world record for two miles and set 5 American records being the first US citizen to hold the 1,500, mile, 3,000, 3 mile and 5,000 at the same time. He won the Sullivan Award in 1962, was a 1960 Olympian and won 4 National Championships.
Upon retiring he was a member of the North Carolina Legislature.
what a stud
Igloi was the stud! In 1955, his big three of Iharos, Roszavolgi and Tabori held every metric world from 1,500 through the 10,000. In fact Iharos and Tabori co-held the 1,500 record plus Tabori was the third person under four minutes. I believe that in 1955, Iharos set 6 new world records. They were good until Hungary fell.
Bumped for "oldguy"