Why do Letsrunners want running to be more popular, but hate hobby joggers?

So now everyone is a fan of the hobby joggers and embraces egalitarianism? No more elitist attitudes?

I need to go somewhere else. Somewhere where my times allow me to feel superior.

Whoever said Golf is on point. There are the Pros, then there are guys that spend a lot of time at the club playing and actually caring about how they do. I'm sure they dislike it when someone like me shows up on a Sat. and hacks up the course with rented clubs.

slow day wrote:

So now everyone is a fan of the hobby joggers and embraces egalitarianism? No more elitist attitudes?

I need to go somewhere else. Somewhere where my times allow me to feel superior.

It's not about egalitarianism, but it's about a sense of perspective. If I run a 1:10 half marathon and my coworkers runs a 2:10, all I did was run the distance an hour faster. It doesn't make me a better person that her, and we still both have to show up to work on Monday because running is still just a hobby. I guess you could say I'm a better runner than she is, but I'm sure she's better at other activities than I am.

And to say that she doesn't deserve a sense of accomplishment (which some in this thread seem to be implying) is asinine. Where's the time cutoff for when we can start feeling good about our running?

That said, I do get annoyed at times at people who overcomplicate running, especially with gear. It's such a simple sport, but some people can't seem to get through a run without brand new shoes, the latest tech clothing, and an armful of electronics. But if that's what it takes to get more people active, then more power to 'em.

I was just pointing out that the usual banter here is about how lame HJs are. With this thread we see a slant towards total acceptance and camaraderie with HJs.

The reason is clear. It is because roughly 50 % of posters here are losers in real life, and cling onto the fact that they can jog at 90 sec/mile faster than casual people jogging to reduce the signs of aging. So that is why.

You don't "respect" hobby joggers. They don't run to win, they usually are running to lose weight and look good. When you play a quick game of basketball or football, you're playing to have fun, to be a bit competitive and perhaps win. It's easy to respect these quick games because the people playing them are competitive and want to win. Not so with hobby joggers. There are the occasional runners that go out to run to run faster and get a higher place at the local 5K, 10K or Marathon run, but these are few.

Letsrunners don't want to see running mainly just become popular, but just more respected as well.

When you start comparing various levels of other sports and various levels of running there is one major difference - running (specifically road racing/the marathon) is the only one where all the hobbyists are competing at the same time, in the same arena with the elites.

Joe Sixpack soft-baller is never going to be in the Yankee Stadium dugout with Derek Jeter. Sam Slicer isn't going to stand on the tee at Amen Corner with Tiger on a Saturday or Sunday (pro-ams don't count, they are basically public practice). In a marathon Paul Tergat, Marilson Gomes De Santos, Paula Radcliffe, myself (2:5x) and 2000 people slower than 6 hours can cross the exact same start and finish line and compete in the same event at NY.

And right or wrong, a lot of the general public is going to be more impressed by their un-athletic coworker/neighbor etc who "worked hard" for a 5 hour NY finish than they would be by 40 year old me breaking 3 or Jason Lehmkule running 2:14. That's why some people get offended.

DuckSoup wrote:

Quick aside: Since it often comes up around here (stuck with match.com, I'm looking at you)... when people deride runners for "having their identity too wrapped up in running," I'm curious: on what do you base your identity? Family, job, religion, dog ownership, saturday night bingo? Are those really so much "better?"

I have a well balanced identity that includes running, writing and playing music, owning cats, and volunteer work. All of those except running give back the community.

Sure, but they aren't going to sit around and watch it happen.

stuck with match.com wrote:

DuckSoup wrote:

Quick aside: Since it often comes up around here (stuck with match.com, I'm looking at you)... when people deride runners for "having their identity too wrapped up in running," I'm curious: on what do you base your identity? Family, job, religion, dog ownership, saturday night bingo? Are those really so much "better?"

I have a well balanced identity that includes running, writing and playing music, owning cats, and volunteer work. All of those except running give back the community.

Enlighten me as to how writing and playing music and owning cats give back to the community.

Mostly it is just ignorance. Average people know that shooting 120 is a bad golf score or that losing a baseball game by 10 runs is embarrassing, throwing 5 interceptions in football is bad, etc. They may know that a 4 minute mile is very fast. They probably don't have a reference point for any other distance. They couldn't tell you if a good time for a marathon is 5 hours or 2:30 or if a good time for a 5k was 30 minutes or 15 minutes.

When people treat a 5 hour marathon the same as a 2:45 marathon, it's not the fault of "hobby joggers" - it's because most people don't have competitive times in their heads and don't know what would be a good time to run.

Anyhow, I don't hate hobby joggers. Good on em for getting out the door and doing something. I wouldn't blame hobby joggers for the culture at large not knowing what constitutes a fast time running different distances.

How does owning cats give back to the community? LOL at that one.

Anyway sometimes I think running and being healthy does give back to the community. When people see others doing something it motivates them to do something. It's indirect, but it's true. I get a lot of motivation from what my friends and peers accomplish.

Yeah but.... wrote:

How does owning cats give back to the community? LOL at that one.

Stuck is doing his part to keep the mouse population down. It's very public spirited of him.

running =/= jogging

running is hard

jogging is easy

t94bell nails it! No matter what your time or ability level, if you run a race to (a) run as fast as you can, and / or (b) finish with as many people behind you as possible, then (IMHO) you're taking the first steps to not being a hobby jogger. It's the equating of finishing with achievement (everybody gets a trophy mentality) that gets to me. If the whole point of running these "event" races is just to finish, what's the difference between a 2:15 and a 4:15? Why should anyone bother with the former when the latter will get you the same accolades?

VF Runner wrote:

When you start comparing various levels of other sports and various levels of running there is one major difference - running (specifically road racing/the marathon) is the only one where all the hobbyists are competing at the same time, in the same arena with the elites.

I think you're right here and my analogy was a bit flawed. There's another difference, I think. There isn't that much variance in running. The 5th best NCAA basketball team vs. the 15th best team is a pretty competitive game, and the 'weaker' team will probably win a quarter or a third of the time. The same is true for most ball sports, but running it's going to be a lot more lopsided. I think it changes the nature of the competition a little bit to know that even on your best day you're not going to win.

rxchtjvh wrote:

Option no. 2 wrote:

If runners were not such snobs to other runners, our sport would me much more popular.

Go to any other running forum online and you'll see that most faster runners don't act this way toward other runners. I would post links but I don't want those places ruined too, just wanted to let you know that Letsrun is not the center of the running universe.

Maybe sort of. The landscape has changed a lot, but this has been going on for a good 15 years at least since the onset of Penguinism.

I've been a long time contributor to another forum and whereas a couple years ago it was a lot of competitive types--albeit tending toward middle age and getting slower--the crowd is now younger, very naive about running and not at all interested in anything to do with performance (wouldn't know the difference between AlSal and Maggie Vessey), and almost every week someone pipes in asking how they can do their first marathon in 3 (or 6 or 9 months) off of 4 miles a week and 45 lbs overweight now.

I now venture to LR for sanity and and to soak in the humility. Sick puppy for sure.

is Dean k considered a hobby jogger

Concerned Citizen wrote:

[quote]stuck with match.com wrote:

Enlighten me as to how writing and playing music and owning cats give back to the community.

I own 4 cats, 2 of which were rescued off the streets and were hazardous to society. I also adopted 2 cats from people who could no longer keep them around. My music benefits society by enlightening people to music and giving them something good to listen to.