What Are the Ethiopians Doing that Allows 12:37/26:39 Races?

Training is obviously a HUGE piece of the puzzle, but it is not possible that this is all there is. Here is a list of people, that, to my knowledge, puts everything into training and seeks to get absolutely everything out of their bodies: Kennedy, Culpepper, Goucher, Ritzenhein, Bakken, Carroll, Torres, Mottram, Lebid, Lombard, Meb, Abdi, Famigletti, Cox

None of these are African and ALL of them are nowhere the Ethiopians. The Ethiopian greats are fewer in number than Kenyans, but those elite Ethiopians are truly THE elite.

But look at that list. Kennedy planned for the world record in 1994 to go after Aouita's 12:58.39. It was a 2 year plan and 2 years later, like clockwork, he broke what would have been the world record with a 12:58.21. But now he was 14 seconds back, as the WR was 12:44.

Look at that front page article a while back about Todd Reeser and how ridiculously hard he works, putting in 7-8 hours+ every day on some running related activity.

We have LOTS of guys that train INCREDIBLY hard and cannot win championship medals nor run times fast enough to win anything more than the most tactical of races.

I think the most plausibl argument so far is the multitude of American sports and the paucity of Ethiopian sports.

It cannot be solely the training. U.S. runners use altitude, plyometrics, hills, speed work, LT work, sprint work, high mileage, etc.

Aw hell, you know what, you are right. It can't be drugs and to mention it "libels" Ethiopia. Of course Adere can run within 10 seconds of that dirty chinese record clean and SOLO. How could I be so stupid, she can almost get to that dirty time, SOLO, because running is so popular in Ethiopia! Of course! It's popularity in Kenya and Ethiopia that makes Bob Kennedy's incredible sub-13 look slow as all hell! It must have been that incredible popularity that has lowered the 5K record 21 seconds in 9 years! Ethiopia's recent success must be attributed to their government's newfound ability to harness that popularity better than the rest of the world (by far). Well, I am glad we cleaned this whole drug thing up!

So, since running is the only way to better yourself in Ethiopia why is it such a small group that is setting the standard? And, almost to a man, that small group is managed by Hermans. Hermans as a athlete was dirty, now when his financial viability is on the line you don't think some/all his athletes aren't dirty? Athletes in the last 15 years haven't genetically improved this much. Track the rate of improvement along with when Hermans started managing them and you will see a perfectly correlated graph. Wake-up people, Ethiopians completely clean, hahahha.

It's large volumes of aerobic work at young ages, lot's of it at relatively low intensities, followed by proper training, organized training groups and nationalized targets (how often do you see Ethiopians road whoring?).

And even those who didn't run to school everyday (Kipketer, Tergat, etc.) they surely weren't sitting on their ass playing Nintendo. They must have been active as children.

I really beleive that Ethiopia's rise has been because of the implementation of nationalized training. Not that from 1975 through 1993, Ethiopia was under the rule of a brutal communist dictatorship, under which 1 million Ethiopians were murdered by the government. Couple that with terrible famine, and it seems obvious why it wasn't until the 1990s (when the tyrant was exiled) that a nationalized program could take place.

Additionally, Ethiopia boycotted Olympics in '76, '84 and '88 -- imagine what effect that would have on American track and field -- it would kill it.

Furthermore, I don't think that any American has/is training like the Africans, with the possible exception of Kennedy when he was living with Komen. It's a whole different level. Not just 130mi weeks at altitude and 18milers at marathon pace with 60m sprint work and 3hr long runs, but 2000 situps and 6mi of drills daily. I'm a huge Meb fan, but I doubt that he's doing 2k situps a day or 6miles of drills. It's secondary things like that you ge from a nationalized program that are so valuable.

I believe that Ethiopia has the best system in the wolrd for producing distance runners (clean ones). To it's credit, not a single Ethiopian has ever tested positive for anything, and when looking at the training they are doing, it does not seem unreasonable (there's no need for extra recovery from super high intensity sessions closely packed together).

When I see all these people automatically cry drugs when Bekele runs 12:37, or after the WC 10k final last year, I want to ask them: what is the limit of how fast a human can go, so that we can know exactly at what point someone is doped? 12:41.05 or 12:39.36 or what? Records are going to be broken; Ethiopia has not had current training modalities for much mroe than ten years -- there's a lot of talent out there.`

Trackhead:

Isn't it noteworthy that there has been no such dramatic drop in racing times in the 800m/1500? Do you attribute that to the ethiopians being (on average in some sense) less genetically

gifted for middle distances?

Very few eastern European athletes were actually busted compared to the number who vere actullay dirty (look in Stasi archives).

Cheers,

Jens

FACT: DRUGS IMPROVE PERFORMANCE SIGNIFICANTLY. EPO HAS BEEN ESTIMATED TO TAKE 15 SECS OFF A 5000M PERFORMANCE.

FACT: SOME ELITE RUNNERS TAKE THESE DRUGS.

FACT: BEKELE HAS RAN 12:37 FOR 5000M.

SO THEN WE HAVE 2 SENARIOS.

1) BEKELE IS CLEAN. HE IS SO TALANTED THAT HE CAN DESTROY THE OTHER ELITES SOME OF WHICH TAKE DRUGS.

2) BEKELE IS ONE OF THE ELITES TAKING DRUGS.

SO WE SHOULD EITHER CLONE HIM OR BAN HIM.

"To it's credit, not a single Ethiopian has ever tested positive for anything, and when looking at the training they are doing, it does not seem unreasonable (there's no need for extra recovery from super high intensity sessions closely packed together)."

There's no need for extra recovery from super high intensity sessinos closely packed together? So, you don't need recovery if you just train at "super high intensity" every day?

Back to your point about how war-torn the place is, your country is torn all to hell and your new government is holding on by a thread. Your country has one hero, Haile, and he has a manager who promises the government more medals and championships if the goverment will fund a team. This will bring prestige to the government so of course they give them whatever they want. I would think that a country desperate for hope (or acclaim) would be ready to bend the rules before any other. See China, East Germany, USSR. Let's face it, they perform unworldly superhuman feats because they cheat.

straight wrote:

FACT: DRUGS IMPROVE PERFORMANCE SIGNIFICANTLY. EPO HAS BEEN ESTIMATED TO TAKE 15 SECS OFF A 5000M PERFORMANCE.

An estimated fact, that's interesting.

There have been no scientific tests of the performance enhancing qualities of EPO, nobody knows for sure whether it has any performance enhancing qualities (and Renato Canova for example has stated his firm belief, that it does nothing for you physically but a lot psychologically - get rid of mental barriers and one day a talented non-east-african guy will kick Bekeles butt).

Follow the money! The agents stand to make money off the performances of their athletes and I would suspect them before the Ethiopian government. Ethiopia isn't at the forefront of promoting any political agenda like the aforementioned communist states.

At the end of the day, poor people might see Geb or Bekele as a beacon of hope but getting food is more important to them.

Atanvarno:

I do recall they were testing EPo at the National School of sports Science (or whatever the name is) in Oslo. I don't know whether they published anything, but I recall a triathlete

who was flying after using EPO. He got so depressed because he

knew that he was living in a fantasy world for short while. He retired afterwards,

Jens

"Now the drugs don't work

They just make you worse"

Well if drugs don't work then some athletes are sure getting ripped off for just a placebo effect.

You live in cloud cuckoo land. Can you hear them singing "cuckoo cuckoo"?

"At the end of the day, poor people might see Geb or Bekele as a beacon of hope but getting food is more important to them."

Unfortunately, in my experience in the world poor people tend to idolize the fame and riches of an athlete over the successful farmer/businessman. Nonetheless, in terms of propaganda for a government, Haile and Co. don't get any better. They are dominating the only sport that West Africans can be any good in. I have no doubt that it gives the Ethiopian people the same feeling the Brazilians get when they win the World Cup. They forget about their economic woes and celebrate.

Whether the Ethiopian government is actively helping their national team cheat is obviously very debatable. The bottom line is Ethiopia is pasting the world 5 deep and even their women are approaching the Chinese marks. I tell you what, if Adere breaks the 5000 WR it will erase the last vestige of doubt I have in my mind about the Ethiopians.

Throughout the history of running, advancements have been made on shorter events before longer ones. The more aerobic an event, the more room for improvement (as the aerobic system kows no limits). Basically, shorter events will be closer to their asymptotes before longer ones.

Additonally, I think Ethiopia is so much mroe 5k/10k/marathon because their original hero, Bikila won the marathon. Even Haile has said that his ultimate goal is the marathon (he's been saying that for some time). This, I think, really shifts the Ethiopian goals to longer distance.

The Pelican Brief wrote:

"To it's credit, not a single Ethiopian has ever tested positive for anything, and when looking at the training they are doing, it does not seem unreasonable (there's no need for extra recovery from super high intensity sessions closely packed together)."

There's no need for extra recovery from super high intensity sessinos closely packed together? So, you don't need recovery if you just train at "super high intensity" every day?

My point was that they DID NOT train at such high intensities with great requency. Much of theEthiopian traing program is recovery running at moderate to easy paces.

Additionally, I do not think that 12:37 is other worldy. What one runner can run with drugs, another can run without.

straight wrote:

Well if drugs don't work then some athletes are sure getting ripped off for just a placebo effect.

You live in cloud cuckoo land. Can you hear them singing "cuckoo cuckoo"?

I was just pointing out, that there are no scientifically proven facts, when it comes to the performance enhancing qualities of EPO (or any other doping substances). Just wild rumours, estimates, guestimates and speculation.

The Pelican Brief wrote:

Whether the Ethiopian government is actively helping their national team cheat is obviously very debatable. The bottom line is Ethiopia is pasting the world 5 deep and even their women are approaching the Chinese marks. I tell you what, if Adere breaks the 5000 WR it will erase the last vestige of doubt I have in my mind about the Ethiopians.

You're kidding? The Womens' 5k WR is theweakest of them all. A number of women have come within a few seconds of it for years now -- Paula ran 14:31 all by herself off of a 76s first lap in Manchester two years ago. That's the one that needs to go -- it's relatively weak when compareed to the out of this world 3k and 10k records.

Why would someone who lives at 9000 ft need EPO?

Bekele and Geb have developed their running action to a very high degree, that is to say a powerful efficient stride with a very quick turnover.

In last years World Championship 10000m they were doing 64 second laps at 180 strides per minute, 62 second laps at 190 strides per minute a 61 second lap at 195 strides per minute, and in the final sprint Bekele reached over 230 strides per minute.

Some of you guys might want to consider these facts and practice some of these techniques yourselves. I know that is wishful thinking on my part. It's much easier for some of you losers to just sit back and say it must be drugs, rather than to consider how much planning and practice as well as training, goes into the Ethiopian runners' preparation for their races.

straight wrote:

FACT: DRUGS IMPROVE PERFORMANCE SIGNIFICANTLY. EPO HAS BEEN ESTIMATED TO TAKE 15 SECS OFF A 5000M PERFORMANCE.

FACT: SOME ELITE RUNNERS TAKE THESE DRUGS.

FACT: BEKELE HAS RAN 12:37 FOR 5000M.

SO THEN WE HAVE 2 SENARIOS.

1) BEKELE IS CLEAN. HE IS SO TALANTED THAT HE CAN DESTROY THE OTHER ELITES SOME OF WHICH TAKE DRUGS.

2) BEKELE IS ONE OF THE ELITES TAKING DRUGS.

SO WE SHOULD EITHER CLONE HIM OR BAN HIM.

Clean runners beat doped runners all the time. Tyree consistenly beat Jerome Young all season, ALi-Said-Sief couldn't win the 5k at worlds, etc...

Trackhead you said:

I'm a huge Meb fan, but I doubt that he's doing 2k situps a day or 6miles of drills. It's secondary things like that you ge from a nationalized program that are so valuable.

Please excuse my ignorance but how can 2,000 Sit-ups and 6 miles of daily drills can help you as a runner? Could you please kindly explain in more details the benefits of these supplementary exercises, specially 2,000 Situps?

and also you said:

To it's credit, not a single Ethiopian has ever tested positive for anything

Alene Amere tested positive for Nandrolone and is currently serving a suspension. Please read the link below.