I am an idiot: Next year I will have three kids at expensive private colleges in non-technical majors

this is the most BS thread i have ever seen on here. you make $150k and you are complaining about money?? you've got to be kidding me! My family makes less than half of what you make and money has never been a problem (and I go to one of the 10 most expensive schools in the country!) you are only paying 20-25 per kid?? that's half of what some schools charge buddy. take out some student loans or make your kids drop out and see which fast food chain will hire them. you know there are people with actual financial problems out there? sorry you won't be able to afford your ferrari a-hole

My parents told us they'd pay up to 25,000 a year, and we'd be responsible for the rest if we wanted to go to a private school. That seemed fair to me, though I can't say that taking loans made me any more dedicated to school. A loan that that doesn't go into payment for another four years doesn't feel very immediate to an 18 year old kid, which is how people get into trouble with large debt for a liberal arts degree. At the very least you should figure out what the kid's monthly payment will be and discuss that with him.

I can vouch and say 150k a year is not a lot. My family is lower middle class and that is what my father makes.

The difference between these two scenarios is that a college education is still worth so much. Education is in some sense not a bubble because of this. Its value is not going to catastrophically collapse like real estate.http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2011/11/21/111121ta_talk_surowiecki"Though recent college grads are having a hard time finding a job, it’s much harder for recent high-school graduates, who have an unemployment rate of nearly 22%. And the over-all unemployment rate for college grads is still, at 4.4 %, very low. "If you can go to college, it's worth it.The article also offers an insightful explanation for the rising costs:"The bubble analogy does work in one respect: education costs, and student debt, are rising at what seem like unsustainable rates. But this isn’t the result of collective delusion. Instead, it stems from the peculiar economics of education, which have a lot in common with the economics of health care, another industry with a huge cost problem. (Indeed, in recent decades the cost of both college education and health care has risen sharply in most developed countries, not just the U.S.) Both industries suffer from an ailment called Baumol’s cost disease, which was diagnosed by the economist William Baumol, back in the sixties. Baumol recognized that some sectors of the economy, like manufacturing, have rising productivity—they regularly produce more with less, which leads to higher wages and rising living standards. But other sectors, like education, have a harder time increasing productivity. Ford, after all, can make more cars with fewer workers and in less time than it did in 1980. But the average student-teacher ratio in college is sixteen to one, just about what it was thirty years ago. In other words, teachers today aren’t any more productive than they were in 1980. The problem is that colleges can’t pay 1980 salaries, and the only way they can pay 2011 salaries is by raising prices. And the Baumol problem is exacerbated by the arms-race problem: colleges compete to lure students by investing in expensive things, like high-profile faculty members, fancy facilities, and a low student-to-teacher ratio."

DaveW wrote:

The government student loan programs, like the sub-prime mortgage loan programs allowed people to get into big debt and allowed the price of homes to skyrocket and the cost of college education to skyrocket. The colleges raked in profits and passed them on to teachers and administrators in the form of inflated salaries and pension plans.

Now they are raising student tuition costs, but in the end, just like in Greece, they will need to cut way back on the fraudulent mark-up in educators pay scale and pension plans.

Finished my PhD well under 10 years ago. Yes, the GA money paid for the tuition, but the stipend often didn't cover living expenses despite the fact that my wife and I lived in an apartment of less than 600sf, no joke! Of course, she worked and that helped. I went to an east coast university with a well-known and widely repected program in my field, so it was worth the sacrifice. For my BA and MA, running paid for a small part, but it didn't pay as much as working 30 hours a week in a pizza shop and 10 hours a week more doing work-study jobs on campus. I appreciate my degrees because of the extra effort I put into getting them. I took out my share of student loans; again, this was a choice I made, so why should my parents be on the hook for my choices? I now teach and am doing quite well, choosing to live within my means and, hopefully, teaching my kids the value of making good choices and working hard. There you go.

What sacrifice? You didn't have parents supporting you - you had a WIFE supporting you!

bull wrote:

this is the most BS thread i have ever seen on here. you make $150k and you are complaining about money?? you've got to be kidding me! My family makes less than half of what you make and money has never been a problem (and I go to one of the 10 most expensive schools in the country!) you are only paying 20-25 per kid?? that's half of what some schools charge buddy. take out some student loans or make your kids drop out and see which fast food chain will hire them. you know there are people with actual financial problems out there? sorry you won't be able to afford your ferrari a-hole

$150k before taxes. After taxes I take home about $115k. This isn't bad, and I'm not complaining about my income level. Although $150k in Montgomery County, Maryland does not go nearly as far as it would in western Kansas. I live in a 2200 square foot house and we drive two modest cars. Income level needs to be understood on a relative scale.

And, again, I'm not looking for sympathy here. I have a job that pays pretty well, and, more importantly, I get to do something I like. I'm not going to apologize for busting my ass for 25 years since college to get what I have. I know a lot of dumb college kids think everyone who makes $150k a year are greedy, entitled pricks. But actually, most of us are just normal folks from modest backgrounds who have a good work ethic and have paid our dues. If you want to continue thinking otherwise, you can kiss my backside.

We have 3 children and went through a similiar financial dilemna = we would not take loans to send them to college and we did not want them to take out loans since we did not want them to start their lives with a "college mortgage". We are also 100% convinced that, unless you know in high school that you want to work on Wall St (many firms will only interview Ivy grad's or equivalent), virtually any school will work. Our approach:

1)If the child was admitted to an Ivy or equivalent, we would pay the "Full Monty"; if they chose a "Tier 2 college (= all others) we were not going to pay $50k+ / year.

2)Son #1 wanted to be a chemical engineer and applied & was accepted into Lehigh @ $48k/yr. We visited the campus, loved it, and then saw that their engineering graduates were paid the same, upon graduation, as most other engineering schools. We told him it was a good school but not Ivy, and to "fall in love with a less expensive school". He got into Virginia Tech, went there a year, transferred to the Univ. of Maine where he graduated with a good GPA, no debt, and has a nice engineering job today (and just got accepted into the Duke MBA program).

3)Daughter wanted to be a Biological Engineer and was recruited by many D1's as a runner. Was offered admission to Penn but declined (much to our chagrin!). Wanted to go to the University of Miami ($48k/yr). We visited, she loved the campus, and saw that their SAT scores were lower than half the community colleges nearby; decent school but not worth $48k = find another school. Long story short is that she really liked Pitt (half the price), graduated from there in Industrial Engineering, no debt, loves being a teacher in NYC, now has her Masters from Pace, etc.

4)Son #2 was trying to choose a Mechanical Engineering program between Colorado ($40k out of state) or the University of Buffalo ($20k in state). Naturally we encouraged him to go to Buffalo....no debt, same job opportunities and pay upon graduation, etc.

In summary, I believe that, with a little diligence, you can send your children to many (very good) colleges and not have to pay the $50k / year that many private schools are charging. There are also several studies showing that your childs post-graduate income has little to do with where they went to college but much more to do with their intellectual horsepower. In other words, a child who can get into an Ivy, but decides not to attend (and instead goes to another non-Ivy school), will on-average make the same money had they gone to the Ivy.

Steering your child into less-expensive schools takes a little soul-searching, especially when there is "peer-pressure" to spend the money to go to more prestigious private colleges but, after exhaustive research, we were absolutely convinced that, for our childen and their ambitions, we (they) didn't need to go to the most expensive private schools...although at the time they were a bit disheartened.

Today, ~5 years after their graduations, we as parents are thankful we have not taken out loans to fund their education (= helps us to prepare for retirement) and all 3 of our children are pretty pleased that we encouraged them to consider the less-expensive (but still very good) colleges they ended up going to. Instead of paying back college loans they are spending their hard-earned money on graduate degrees (Duke MBA), climbing Mt. Kilimajaro, attending bull-riding camps, learning Spanish in Medellin Colombia, skiing throughout North America.

In short, we're definitely not the "1%"; you can do this without incurring debt (for you or your children)

Why is tutiton so high in the USA? I go to school in Canada and my tuition is 6K. Is that comparable to most In-state tuition prices in the USA?

I have heard of many US students going to UToronto or McGillU (both top 50 universities in the world). Do they pay an increased price in tuition for being international students?

If not, why don't way more Americans take advantage of the killer prices north of the boarder.

and heck, ya we could always use more school athletic spirit.

Reading comprehension obviously isn't your forte. I recognized the fact that my wife worked while I got the PhD. I also recognize the fact that, even with what she made, we didn't pay for things like cable, internet, or other such luxuries. In fact, we sold one car and I walked to biked everywhere I went in town.You must have also missed the point regarding how I paid for the BA and MA degrees. I'm guessing mom and dad paid for your degree OR you are like the original poster who feels stupid for having his kids dupe him into footing the bill for their education.

different scenario wrote:

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What sacrifice? You didn't have parents supporting you - you had a WIFE supporting you![/quote]

Thanks for the advice. We have 2 - one starts next fall, the second one the fall after that.

We've already had the conversation with them - we have over $120K set aside for each of them for college...on the condition that they major in something that will allow them to earn a living immediately upon graduation and allow for flexibility to expand their field as they gain experience:

Healthcare - MD, nursing, OT, PT, SLP, etc

Engineering - electrical, chemical, mechanical, biomedical

Business - accounting or finance - no bullshit marketing or buisness admin degree.

No degree in history, english, etc...not even education at this point.

Dude,

Let your children pick what they would like to major in and do as a career. Its there life not yours... What if they don't like any of your choices? and truly enjoy history or english? Are you going to say no and pressure your child into 4 years of something they dont want to do?

Bottom Line: Let your children do what they are passionate about.

Ok here is what i got.. wrote:

Dude,

Let your children pick what they would like to major in and do as a career. Its there life not yours... What if they don't like any of your choices? and truly enjoy history or english? Are you going to say no and pressure your child into 4 years of something they dont want to do?

Bottom Line: Let your children do what they are passionate about.

I don't have kids, but I disagree. It sounds like they were given a choice: get a free education with certain majors or pay for it themselves and do what they want.

Their parents don't HAVE TO pay for it.

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Problem for the kids is that their financial aid will be calculated based on parents income whether the parent chooses to contribute or not.

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Declare independent from parents and this is not an issue. I did the same my 1st year!

Great thread for real parents. Have four kids that have all graduated college, but this is how it panned out, since I didn't attend college (went to UMass Amherst for a semester before working). I worked two jobs (one during the week, one weekends), while we lived with my in-laws in Framingham. We moved out of Boston in '85 to move down South, and my wife started teaching when the kids were all in elementary school.

They were in Catholic schools all through high school, including all-boy/all-girl HS for my kids in HS.

1) Oldest son, good athlete, best student. We couldn't afford him to attend Williams, where he got a great financial aid package, so he went to the Univ. of Miami and graduated a Hurricane in three years. He's inline to be a CIO of firm in Miami, makes six figures, nice house in Pembroke Pines, couple of kids, great wife that stays at home.

2) Second son, geat athlete (3200m runner-up/XC), great student. Recruited by some solid schools, Notre Dame, Clemson, Florida, and finally to Swarthmore, but no idea how he realized he might have debt upon graduation, so he took a full DI ride in Florida. Graduated All-American, no debt, coached a bit in college, but entered a great industry and is doing well in the M-A with wife and three kids.

3) Daughter, solid athlete (1600/3200m/XC), great student.. recruited locally, took a full ride DI as her older brother, graduated education has a couple of kids, teaching/coaching and lives nearby. She is doing well.

4) Youngest son.. mediocre student, stud athlete. Only went 4:25/9:55 in high school, but went to same school as sibling 2 & 3 on a full ride. Got his grades up, won conference 5000m, and then transferred as a walk-on to a major DI track program. Ended up qualifying for Nationals twice in XC and once in track. National champions in track. Graduated (amazingly) in 5 years with Criminal Justice and lived in his car for a couple of years being a PI, living with us as he figured it out. Finally, got into HR and is in line to be Director of HR for a major city.

Bottom line: we have no idea, as parents, how this all happened. Best we can say was a great private high school structure that set them up for success, focusing on academics and athletics and out of trouble. I like to say that the combination of my wife being a teacher (i.e., strict) and my athletic genes (ran 3:19 at Boston at 45 with no running background) contributed to this being a reality.

Biggest mistake. Bought our home for $115,000 in '85 and was valued at $510K in '03 and never sold it. It's back to $230K value, but oh well... biggest regret.

If the kids have a choice, how about you let them major in what they want in? Too many people are obsessed with "gotta get a high paying job as soon as I graduate", how about you study what you are good at, and what you are passionate about? Honestly, I'll prob end up being a liberal arts major. I want to do what makes me happy.

You've obviously done well in your career and worked hard. I also agree with your education comments. But just like a company, we have income (revenue for Co's) and expenses. You're NETTING $1M approx. every 8-9 years and have self-created this to not be enough. Is your home paid off? Or is it expensive enough to go through the 30 year term? You have the income to reasonably do as you please- But instead you give your hundreds of thousands (or $1M+) to 3rd parties, much of which you don't have to.

Just going to be honest wrote:

I can vouch and say 150k a year is not a lot. My family is lower middle class and that is what my father makes.

When you say that 150k/year is "lower middle class," what you're telling us is that you have a very, very narrow range of experience.

Ok here is what i got.. wrote:

Dude,

Let your children pick what they would like to major in and do as a career. Its there life not yours... What if they don't like any of your choices? and truly enjoy history or english? Are you going to say no and pressure your child into 4 years of something they dont want to do?

Bottom Line: Let your children do what they are passionate about.

I think it depends on how flexible the list is. If the guy is simply presenting his kids with a list of a dozen majors and saying "pick a major from this list if you want my help paying for school," then I think he has the wrong idea. If he's going to research majors with the kids and be flexible, I don't think it's necessarily a horrible plan.

Whether or not a major is sensible really depends on the individual's goals. An English or history degree can be very useful for someone who wants to go to law school. If the other poster is going to let his kids lay out their plan and will be receptive to their arguments in favor of the major they've selected, I don't think his idea is all that wrong.