LUKAS last 3k = 9:29.4, LUTZ last 3k = 8:42.7

[quote]Stuck with match.com wrote:

Except they are the most obnoxious. Every year they come on here and are arrogant about how Oregon is the best and they jam it down your throats. Then when Oregon doesn't perform they make tons of excuses. They are also behind the hate of every non Oregon runner because they are jealous he ain't a duck. That's where all the GF hates comes from. Obnoxious Oregon fans

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I think you're absolutely right! LV was completely a wash out in this race! But we all know though......he'll be back soon! He should be doing a lot of tempo work right now with the Big P and others to build his pacing & pack skills. This is a small bump for him, but he usually bounces back with a vengeance! As others have pointed out, the Rosa dudes did'nt do any better and ran pretty crap as well, so it's all a learning experience for them more or less!

Rosas bombed too. The freshman are just not used to racing for 8k, that's all. More mileage will fix that. They'll perform a lot better on the track at distances they are familiar with.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Rosas bombed too. The freshman are just not used to racing for 8k, that's all. More mileage will fix that. They'll perform a lot better on the track at distances they are familiar with.

lalang, in his 2nd year of competitive running, off of50-60 mpw just crushed everyone.

Bob Kennedy won the whole thing as a frosh after a HS career of 50-60 mpw and maybe 70+ during his frosh year.

Alan Webb was big 10 champ and 2nd at Regional qualifiers behind eventual finals winner Boaz C. after a HS career of 60 mpw max, and frosh season of 70 mpw. (meaning he would have have been top 10 at least in the finals race, but he blew up a little and I think got 11th overall)

So is more mileage the answer, or more talent? LV has the talent, so he will be there at the end of the season, high mileage or no high mileage.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

lalang, in his 2nd year of competitive running, off of50-60 mpw just crushed everyone.

Bob Kennedy won the whole thing as a frosh after a HS career of 50-60 mpw and maybe 70+ during his frosh year.

Alan Webb was big 10 champ and 2nd at Regional qualifiers behind eventual finals winner Boaz C. after a HS career of 60 mpw max, and frosh season of 70 mpw. (meaning he would have have been top 10 at least in the finals race, but he blew up a little and I think got 11th overall)

So is more mileage the answer, or more talent? LV has the talent, so he will be there at the end of the season, high mileage or no high mileage.

I often wonder how anyone knows how much mileage anyone else is doing/has done. Just taking folks words for it? Seems like pretty much a 100% unreliable source.

I've known guys who I trained with, and whose mileage I knew, to claim they were doing only 40 MPW when they were doing 70 MPW with me. I've known others who loved to claim they were hard working 100 MPW guys when I knew they rarely went past 50.

How the hell does anyone know what mileage Laland or LV or anyone else is really putting in?

coach d wrote:

What matters:

15 Craig Lutz FR 23:47

62 Lukas Verzbicas FR 24:36

I've been a big LV fan and a respectful CL fan. LV will run smarter next time. But kudos big time to CL for now. He was just 4 sec behind Puskedra in 9th.

who the heck this Lukas Verzbicas guy? they talk about him as if he has 3 course records and 3 wins this season so far.lol I am sure they wish he was lawi lalang then they can spread more of propaganda to everyone.

twitter stalk wrote:

Welcome back to reality. Better not think that people are looking at Oregon "in awe" as they get off the bus anymore @LukasVerzbicas

Take "an english" class.

I often agree with you. How do people know every good runners exact mileage? Of course we can get a good idea, but we'll never really be certain. I for one, do know how much Lawi's mileage is. Seeing as how we're good friends.

Keep in mind that Lukas got off to a late start training for XC, he probably will not be in top shape untl mid-Nov. Also, a few posters pointed out how well some previous freshmen have done in the NCAAA XC champs; things have changed quite a bit in the last 3-4 years. The days of a freshman winning NCAA cross is over, if you can break into the top-20 that's phenomenal.

Lukas 1st NCAA race wasn't bad, chances are his less than stellar performance yesterday was more mental than physical. It is a shock to your system when you go out as fast in an 8K as you have done in 5K and there are a dozen athletes all around you and a horde just behind you. He will make adjustments and come Championship time, I would expect him to be just outside of the top-10.

The good news, Lukas was right up with most of the bunch at 3k, so he is not afraid. The back end endurance will come in time, the kid is a freshman for crying out loud and was training heavily with swimming and biking much of the summer. Give him a break!

Gotthemoveslikejager wrote:

U can't suddenly go from High sch star to a frosh star, unless you got some great kenyan genetics like my man Lalang.

You really should read the entire thread, or maybe even just think, before responding. From Sir Lance-A-Lot on the previous page:

As freshmen:

BK won it

Goucher got 2nd

Ritz 4th

Puskedra 5h

Derrick 7th

LV is one of 5 High Schoolers ever to run under 4 minutes for the Mile and is the fastest ever at 2 Miles. As a prep, he was hands down better than all of the guys listed above (save for maybe Ritz who is a natural at XC [WJXC Broze]). Your statement that I quoted above has been proven wrong many times in the past, and LV has just as much, if not more, potential to be a frosh star than the people who have proven it wrong.

Gotthemoveslikejager wrote:

Agreed. I think all the fame of the 2 mile HS record and sub 4 went into his head and he thought he could hang with the leaders. Went out with his team mate Puskedra and the leaders for over 3k and crashed and burnt.

U can't suddenly go from High sch star to a frosh star, unless you got some great kenyan genetics like my man Lalang. I hope this experience will convince Lukas to turn his attention towards Tri and not track in the long term. He WILL NOT succeed like the tons of Americans before him on the world stage against the East Africans.

Not quite true. Ritzenhein is a great case in point, as is Goucher, among many others. It's impossible to assess Lukas' potential based on a debut race, particularly in the wake of a spectacular summer run on the track, a Junior Tri win, and a time trial that he may have run too hard. Impossible to gauge his fitness level and sharpness right now.

However, my best guess is that, in the long run, you're correct, and Lukas will gravitate back towards the triathlon, which is what made him a high school stud in the first place. Most prep stars, with very few exceptions, get chewed up and spit out, especially if they try to compete with the front pack in workouts and races from the jump.

While I wouldn't be surprised if he had a successful college career, I'd be extremely surprised if this kid didn't ultimately find his way back to the triathlon.

15 min 3k sucks dick dude i would murder him

15 min 3k sucks dick dude i would murder his times

What a collection of dumbphucks. LV is just a few weeks removed from training for the WCs in the Jr. Triathlon. You all swallow after you suck.

If LV lays back, then he 'has no balls'. If he goes with the leaders, then his past successes have 'gone to his head'. IMO, the worst would be LV becoming a conservative racer. Sure, he may need to make some short-term tactical changes. But in short time, I hope he becomes fearless & aggressive again. XC generally 'rewards' this kind of racing.

Great post. I think it's often understated what a change it is from easily (and quickly) breaking most of the guys you run against to running at near red-line pace and having TONS of guys around you. For my n = 1 anecdotal contribution, I was an extremely average high school runner my sophomore year who became decent for his area junior year. In the bigger invitationals, I would generally be in the top 10 by the first mile or so and hold that pretty well. When I made my regional meet (something I had never done in years past), it was an absolute shock to be busting my ass as hard as I knew and still have 50 some guys around me. I got stomped, and learned a good lesson on what I needed to do for the next year.

Something tells me that Lukas, who is far superior to me (both in terms of mental toughness and physical ability) will learn far better than I did. He's got the ability, and now it's just a matter of learning how to put that ability together for a new level of racing.

Re: the actual topic of this thread, I can't believe how few people are here to praise Lutz's performance in comparison to how many are here to dump on Lukas. For shame. What a magnificent performance by Lutz, who was VERY underrated in high school and somehow continues to fly under the radar. A fantastic result for him, and it certainly indicates good things for his future. On that note, has there ever been such a deep year for NCAA cross country in the past 20 years?

stuck with match.com wrote:

Dude Lukas ran a 3k time trial in 15:34 the other day. Clearly he's in tip top shape and had a bad day.

I am wondering if you are really serious putting this down. Do you even run in the first place. 3K time trials for Lukas category guys should be upper 8 minutes or lower 9 minutes. I can do a 3k trial in upper 9 minutes or lower 10 minutes.

So get your maths right!

Kenyano wrote:

stuck with match.com wrote:

Dude Lukas ran a 3k time trial in 15:34 the other day. Clearly he's in tip top shape and had a bad day.

I am wondering if you are really serious putting this down. Do you even run in the first place. 3K time trials for Lukas category guys should be upper 8 minutes or lower 9 minutes. I can do a 3k trial in upper 9 minutes or lower 10 minutes.

So get your maths right!

Obviously Match is trying to be funny or it is just a typo.

And quit saying "maths". What are you, an idiot?