Ed Ches 11:55.40 CR at Eastern States

London12 wrote:

Didn't say a thing about Rosa or Cheserek. But I would say that the best team to ever run on that course did so in 1971. F-M ran 1 second faster as a team a few years ago but the second fastest team time of all time is still St. Joe's of Buffalo. You kids spend too much time on Facebook and not enough time on the roads!!

I'm curious. How on earth would spending more time "on the roads" increase their knowledge of bygone high school runners?

In all seriousness, they'd be MUCH more likely to find that information on the internet

London12 wrote:

Didn't say a thing about Rosa or Cheserek. But I would say that the best team to ever run on that course did so in 1971. F-M ran 1 second faster as a team a few years ago but the second fastest team time of all time is still St. Joe's of Buffalo. You kids spend too much time on Facebook and not enough time on the roads!!

The difference between FM (12:48.82) and St. Joe's (12:53.36) team averages is about 4.5 seconds. In normal/dry weather, I personally think the resurfaced course is about 5 seconds faster than the old chewed up course. Based on that, I think FM and St. Joe's performances are about equal in terms of time, but the fact that St. Joe's did that 40 years ago is amazing.

London12 wrote:

Didn't say a thing about Rosa or Cheserek. But I would say that the best team to ever run on that course did so in 1971. F-M ran 1 second faster as a team a few years ago but the second fastest team time of all time is still St. Joe's of Buffalo. You kids spend too much time on Facebook and not enough time on the roads!!

But you did say those things about Rosa and Cheserek. You just don't like the logical implications of your beliefs because they make you look absurd.

People of my age and a bit younger are spending enough time on the road (better yet, the trails; fewer injuries) to surpass your golden era, let alone the embarassingly weak era that came before, so I won't worry about that.

Er, and by "came before" I meant to say "came between the 'golden era' and the current one."

My opinion: Cheserek is the best ever....period. Rosa would probably be second but he wouldn't run away from the best guys in the 70s and early/mid 80s (Ostalazaga, Gregorek, Heffernen etc...) Gregorek in particular-never lost a XC race and probably didn't lose a track race junior and senior year (won the golden west meet in Cali his senior year)... Always did just enough to win.

My comment about mileage was a reference to the fact that today's runners are only at or about where we were in the 70s. Diet is better and coaching is generally better. But mileage is way down. We ran 100-110mi per week in HS in August. Slow and on grass or dirt to minimize the wear and tear. That sort of pre season base building is what really makes a difference. It is also higher risk i.e. i missed every third season in HS and College due to injury. It won't enable an untalented plodder to beat a superior athlete but most, not all, athletes will do better i.e. will run faster in their career, on a pre/early season high mileage training schedule.

My prescription for most runners (life is a bell curve...what works for most won't work for all):

Jul Long Slow Distance (LSD) 50 building to 70mi per week

Aug LSD 90-110mi per week w a 4 X 2 a days (AM/PM) i.e. 5mi AM, 10-12 PM

Sep/Oct 70-80Mi per week, w 2 hard interval sessions per week, race through early season meets...a couple of 2-a-days a week.

Nov 60 mi per week, short/sharp intervals, rest and PEAK for States

I know...no detail. But very generally speaking, this is what the best teams in the 1970s were doing.

Kario Mart wrote:

Thus unless you have a legitimate reason to believe he is older than he says he is you should shut up. Anyone could be lying about his age.

The age-argument for Africans is valid. Edward Cheserek was raised in a Kenyan orphanage and his birth date is not verifiable at all. There is simply no way to tell.

Two years ago FIFA addressed the issue for the junior world cup by using MRIs on the wrist to determine an age-range of male athletes.

This is an issue of equity and, if we do claim to be a land of justice, there should be a quantifiable measurement in place to verify age. If Edward Cheserk is beyond high school age, then it certainly is an inequitable affair. It is the governing body's responsibility to verify eligibility and a wrist MRI should be ordered.

Can't wait to see Ed in an Oregon uniform in a couple of years. Dude is going to be a beast at Oregon.

This is an excellent post. I had no idea there were MRI tests to estimate player age. If Cheserek wants to put the doubters to rest, he will sign up for an MRI test. In fact, they should be required before letting any immigrant compete in U.S. sports. Right?

A guy who breaks 13 in his 20s should be in the mid-13's by 18. Therefore there should be and are plenty of people who can run in the 13's in high school age, and furthermore some of them are likely to travel outside of their country. Unless Africans just skip the ages between 15-18 you can't just assume that any good African is old.