MARY CAIN is easily the greatest running prodigy in the US since Mary Decker Slaney

je5u wrote:

I accept your point re Bronxville. However, I wouldn't want people to think that Decker, as a kid, was really being developed for the future. (I don't think Big Fut actually implies this, but some might infer it as one of the differences between Cain and MD.)

Mary Decker, at age 12 or so, memorably had a week that included running a marathon and ~four other mid-/distance races, followed by an appendectomy at the end of the week. Not a huge surprise to learn that she subsequently lost entire seasons/years to injury.

However, MD did win an AIAW cross championship while at UC (after the race leader was directed off course, though). Later had a little success internationally, too.

Of course Mary Decker wasn't developed for the future. It's a miracle she made it out the other side.

Mary Cain still looks very young and has a ton of physical maturing to do. I just hope the coaches at Bronxville lay off the accelerator pedal the next two-three years. My guess is they don't.

Mary Cain will most likely end up where a bunch of Bronxville girls have ended up: at Princeton with running not being their priority. There is no problem with this but it should be the running community's realistic expectations given Bronxville's history.

Big Fut wrote:

People this is Bronxville we are talking about! I have lived in NY for two decades. Bronxville doesn't develop their athletes for the long term. I am sure this girl is doing tons of interval and rep training. Its so frustrating watching Bronxville runners obtain quick results at their own detriment. A lot of the Bronxville girls use running as a means to get into colleges (nothing wrong with that, but more reason not to compare this 15 year old to Mary Decker).

I agree these comparisons are a little silly, but I am wondering what this statement is based on and which situations in particular frustrated you. Like her teamates past and present, she is in good hands and will probably not need running to go Ivy. I think a healthy comparison is Shelby Greany who dominated NY Section 1 as a tiny little 7th grader, kept making significant improvements and has done very well beyond HS.

Shelby Greany is a competitive animal and went to a different high school. That girl would cut people's throats to rise to the top (sarcasm).

I don't know Mary Cain and I wish her the best. I'm just trying to put things in perspective for those outside of NY. Bronxville is a very affluent town and academics are very important there. I doubt when Mary goes home her parents are talking about sports, rather academics and positioning herself for Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stamford, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, UPenn, Columbia, Duke, etc.

*Stanford*

A little self-hate on my part for that one.

If you compare Mary Cain's personal best as a freshman to Ajee Wilson, Aisling Cuffe, and any other female- very few can stand up to her personal best as a high school freshman excpet for Mary Teresa Decker. Let's hope when her body starts maturing that it doesn't affect her running and she can continue to develop her amazing talent and a hopefully many personal bests over the next several years.

Big Fut wrote:

People this is Bronxville we are talking about! I have lived in NY for two decades. Bronxville doesn't develop their athletes for the long term. I am sure this girl is doing tons of interval and rep training. Its so frustrating watching Bronxville runners obtain quick results at their own detriment. A lot of the Bronxville girls use running as a means to get into colleges (nothing wrong with that, but more reason not to compare this 15 year old to Mary Decker).

Are you saying that the way Bronxville girls train is detrimental to their future running? What in that training is the problem?

As to the parents, I've run with lots of them, and they all take their running quite seriously.

The Bronxville coaches know what they are doing and have had plenty of long term successes.

http://www.myhometownbronxville.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1086%3Abronxville-grad-catha-mullen-finishes-11th-in-nyc-marathon&Itemid=26

http://www.nyac.org/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=246167&ssid=102404&vnf=1

Cain has only run one XC season so its unfair to compare XC times just yet. She is also only a freshman so this thread is very speculative, but it will be interesting to see how her career progresses.

Here's the 4:17 1500m:

http://ny.milesplit.com/videos?id=18647

Cain and Weissenbach both look like the real deal.

Ummm ever heard of Jordan Hasay?

From memory:

When Kim Gallagher entered high school, she held the age group record for every event she competed in; when Kim Gallagher left high school, she held the high school record for every event she competed in.

In Kim Gallagher's freshman year of high school, she won the PA XC state championship, she did not train for XC, and I don't think she was even on the team. Kim only ran one meet, the district qualifying meet and then the state championship. To this day a rule exist, which was originally called the Kim Gallagher rule, which generally states an athlete must be a member of the country team and compete in a full season. Btw, PA was an XC powerhouse at the time. The first national XC meet did not start until the following year, but Kim would not have run in it anyway because XC was considered her off season. However, Kim as a natural long distance runner and very few people would disagree when I say she would have won the national XC meet 4 years in a row.

In Kim Gallagher's senior year of high school, she was nations best athlete in in 800/mile, she was the anchor leg on the nation’s best 4x400, 4x800 and DMR and I think her H.S. held the national record in the 4x800 and DMR. Kim never ran a serious open 400m, but at the 1982 Penn Relays, on the anchor leg of the COA, Kim walked down the nation’s best 400m runner, Diane Dixon who was a 51x 400m runner. Also, as a H.S. sophomore she made U.S. Olympic trials finals in the 800m. - Mary Decker had similar talents, although she had a few injuries in H.S., which caused her to miss out on some opportunities and most focus was on club meets.

Some of Mary and Kim's records are being broken or slowly being pushed towards the bottom end of the top-10 list, but keep in mind that up until the early 80s, the 800m was the further most high school girls ran in competition and up until the late 70s, high school girl’s running gear was cotton shorts and suede or leather running shoes.

The point is, Mary Cain is very good and I hope she continues to improve, but it is helpful to know T&F history and to be careful when using terms like the greatest.

Hey Stupid did Jordan Hasay run 4:17 at age 14? Compare Jordan Hasay at age 14 to Mary Cain who is fourteen.

Same goes for you too TrackCoach. Stop looking at other athletes entire high school careers and compare just their freshman year to Mary Cain's. Yes she has another 3 years in high school but her freshman year alone propels her among the greatest female high schoolers as far as TALENT!

Who besides Mary Decker and Kim Gallagher could/have run 2:03.7 800m relay leg and 4:17 open 1500m as a freshman?

I don't understand the frustration. Is it because the Bronxville girls are so successful? The responsibility of the high school coach is to help the girls be as successful as possible by placing them in a training environment best suited to their needs. The system that the Bronxville girls have followed for the past 30+ years obviously works for them. Bronxville is a very small school (100 seniors) this year and most of the girls on the team run all three seasons. The four girls who ran on Friday night all PRed. The same happened last year when Bronxville ran 8:53. I don't think such results indicate excessive training throughout the year. As a matter of fact, they will not run on a track again until next December and then only twice a week, weather permitting. The girls are very fortunate in having completely supportive parents and an appreciative community.

MaryMary wrote:

Hey Stupid did Jordan Hasay run 4:17 at age 14? Compare Jordan Hasay at age 14 to Mary Cain who is fourteen.

At 14, Hasay ran 4:42 for the mile, 9:26 3000 and 10:07 3200, plus she won FL Nationals.

You really think her achievements aren't the equivalent of Mary Cain's performances?

the frustration you "don't understand" is the jealousy of other coaches from the same area trying to get a jab in at the Bronxville program and the coach. Just because they don't go on to accept full rides to traditional track powers and put all their effort into running in college doesn't make the high school program a failure. These girls and boys from this town go to very nice colleges and are successful in many other ways in life. Kids are supposed to be able to reach their potential in all areas, saying that they have less than stellar college careers because you don't see them going on to super running programs is due to the success they have in other areas, such as...oh, I don't know......academics perhaps? These kids all strive to be accepted into very nice colleges and if running helps them to that end, more power to them.

Those kids will all be forgotten w/o a WR, IAAF WC medal, or Oly medal. We remember Mark Decker for her...

MaryMary wrote:

Hey Stupid did Jordan Hasay run 4:17 at age 14? Compare Jordan Hasay at age 14 to Mary Cain who is fourteen.

Cain turned 15 near the beginning of May, so she wasn't 14 when she ran the 4:17.

Interesting thing is why are we seeing so many prodigies as of late? When Nicole Blood and Jordan Hasay were around, they were considered a HUGE deal because no one had run the times they had run in a long time. However, these days, we are seeing a lot more prodigies: Mary Cain, Sarah Baxter, Ajee Wilson, etc. Why is this?

Back to the OP...

Cain is not EASILY the greatest running prodigy since Mary. KG came after her and, in terms of being a prodigy, was of equal or greater stature.

With that said...Cain having run 4:17 and 2:03split is the best 800/mile 'prodigy' within the past 15-20 years IMO. Hasay was also a considerable talent as a frosh, but I still believe the level Cain is on at the 8/15 level is above Hasay's 16/32 level in 9th grade, although it may be marginally.

If she even has a modest progression from where she is at now she inches very close to being the absolute best their ever was in those events. I really hope she does...to see a girl in the 4:34-5 and 2flat range would be extraordinary.