MAVS WIN IT

Doesn't this say more about the player than the coach?

in will come the Zen Master to make everything right... it will take a lot for Riley to make that move but it's the only move left that makes sense

AZTT wrote:

in will come the Zen Master to make everything right... it will take a lot for Riley to make that move but it's the only move left that makes sense

I see Riley returning to the bench of the Heat before he hires Phil.

call like i see em wrote:

. His defense is tremendous, and it never disappears..

Are you nuts? He defense was horrendous this series. Did you even bother to watch the games?

His +/- numbers were as follows:

game 1 +9, game 2 -5, game 3 +1, game 4 -6, game 5 -11, game 6 -24

You can't be serious. He's a good defender at times but he was brutal this whole series.

call like i see em wrote:

I never said Lebron was MJ. I said he's currently the best player in the world, which is true, even if his team wasn't the best.

His team outscored the Mavs by 14 in the small number of minutes he was off the court, yet they were outscored by 24 in the time he was on. How exactly can you claim your team isn't great, when you actively make them worse relative to the other team?

Have you forgotten that one year in Cleveland when LeBron and co. had the best regular season record and still lost in the playoffs? You can only blame the people around you so much until you have to start wondering if James is the problem, not everyone else.

I didn't watch any of this series, but I did watch last night's game, most of it, and I expected LeBron to have a huge night. And while he quietly scored 21 points, same as Dirk, he seemed noticeably absent on offense, content to dump it off rather than driving to the hoop to get his points or attempting to draw a foul. While assists are important, he definitely did not rise to the occasion on the grandest stage at home as many of the biggest stars have done to punctuate their careers. Dallas had a solid scheme for him and his apprehension showed, but he's still got plenty of years left.

Kudos to the Mavs for winning it all, a bunch of notable has-beens who all coveted that elusive title and will probably appreciate it much more than a team full of megalomaniacal divas. Jason Terry's shooting was the difference. In the end, I was rooting for the least tatt'd up team, and I still can't figure out who that was. Mark Cuban is still a horse's ass.

I'd much rather build a team around Rose than Lebron....easily.

This topic is making me rage that people think Lebron is not the best player in the NBA.

First the dude is a freak and his +/- numbers mean nothing. Basketball statisticians will agree that they are useless. Look at the # of points the Mav's player scored while being guarded by Lebron. It was minimal.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Is lebrons stat line. Compare that Durant who is supposed to leave him in the dust.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

Across the board James is better.

Other players

Dirk- Same thing, as a 4 guard dude can't play defense. He will enter that Barkley and Malone pantheon as an all time great, but he is a top 10 player most years in nba (top 5 this year)

Derek Rose- Can't play defense and takes a ton of shots, upward potential though is huge. Looks a lot like a better version of Allen Iverson

Kobe- Generally declining statistics, still a very good player

I should also follow that up with

Mavs played amazing in the finals and deserved to win. Wade and Dirk were clearly the superstars.

Also and this is the topic for debate

I'd rather build a team around Lebron James than Rose.

While Rose is great, there are so many more point guards that can replace him (Most talented position in NBA) but the 3-guard spot is not nearly as deep so it would be easier to work at a more all-around position.

Here's my take on this, like anybody cares:

Lebron is primarily a player rather than a competitor.

PLAYING is more important to him than WINNING.

He goes out to play, not to win. If he can make some big plays during the course of the night, he is impressed with himself, and feels like he had fun, or did something worthwhile, or achieved his goal--of playing, and playing well.

I don't see him as being so concerned with WINNING games. Maybe winning individual plays, yes--but even then, I think he's content to lose as many as he wins, as long as he can get his share of great plays.

I really do think that he is up there among the best individual PLAYERS ever, maybe the best. Make a highlight tape of all the best individual moments of excellent players, and his would likely be the best.

But he is NOWHERE NEAR THE BEST COMPETITOR.

The best competitor does what it takes to WIN the game, no matter what. If that means they have to completely change what they are doing, so be it. They fit in. They execute somebody else's strategy--and when that doesn't work, they substitute their own attempts at strategy--strategy aimed at WINNING, not at PLAYING.

In real competitors, you can see that desire, that drive, that desperation to WIN. We all know who has it--from MJ, to that guy who isn't the biggest, toughest, fastest, or most skilled--like Gretzky.

Lebron is like Pavel Bure in hockey--absolutely fantastic individual player, but nowhere near the best competitor.

For me, Lebron is kind of amusing to watch--he gives some moments of delight. But he is not riveting; he is not involved in, and carrying the weight of, the drama of the contest.

He's ego-centric--it's all about him, and his plays. Hey Lebron, there is another team out there kicking your ass, in case you haven't noticed--and you haven't. Or at least you haven't cared.

The drama of the contest is WAY more interesting than the exhibition of individual skill.

The Heat's loss isn't his fault--it's the Mav's doing.

After that series its hard to say Lebron is the best player in the NBA when Nowitzki just beat his team with a worse supporting cast.

Once again we are not talking about the most exciting or potentially dominating player. Basketball is a five person game and Lebron never learned how to play with the other four and thats why even Nowitzki is still ahead of Lebron in my book.

Other players ahead of Lebron.

Kobe

Rose

Duncan (3-4 years ago)

Better supporting cast is debatable. The Big 3 outplayed Dallas, but check this

PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT%

1

Dwyane Wade , MIA

6 39.0 26.5 9.8-18.0 .546 1.2-3.8 .304 5.7-8.2 .694

2

Dirk Nowitzki , DAL

6 40.4 26.0 8.7-20.8 .416 1.2-3.2 .368 7.5-7.7 .978

3

Chris Bosh , MIA

6 39.4 18.5 6.3-15.3 .413 .0-.2 .000 5.8-7.5 .778

4

Jason Terry , DAL

6 32.6 18.0 6.3-12.8 .494 1.8-4.7 .393 3.5-4.7 .750

5

LeBron James , MIA

6 43.6 17.8 7.2-15.0 .478 1.5-4.7 .321 2.0-3.3 .600

6

Shawn Marion , DAL

6 35.8 13.7 5.7-11.8 .479 .0-.2 .000 2.3-2.8 .824

7

Mario Chalmers , MIA

6 28.9 11.8 3.3-7.8 .426 2.3-5.8 .400 2.8-3.8 .739

8

Tyson Chandler , DAL

6 37.3 9.7 3.2-5.3 .594 .0-.0 .000 3.3-5.3 .625

9

Jose Juan Barea , DAL

6 21.4 8.8 3.5-9.2 .382 1.0-3.0 .333 .8-1.2 .714

10

Jason Kidd , DAL

6 37.4 7.7 2.3-6.0 .389 2.0-4.7 .429 1.0-1.3 .750

11

DeShawn Stevenson , DAL

6 17.2 7.0 2.2-4.0 .542 2.2-3.8 .565 .5-.7 .750

Miami has very little after the big 3.

it took MJ 7 years to win his first title, just saying...

And that's the difference... look where they scored their respective points. Dirk had an ice cold first half, during which time his teammates held things together, even taking a small lead into the half. Thank Jason Terry. But Dirk shoot it off, came out in the second half, and scored a ton of points to take the game away from the heat. James was just mediocre all night, while Dirk had a clear cold spot early on, but turned the jets on when it was crunch time. Two very different scoring distributions there, telling two very different stories.

It was cool that he made sure the original owner was the first one to hoist the trophy. I'm not much of a Mark Cuban fan either, but I thought that was a nice gesture. In that interview, every time the interviewer tried to make it about him, he turned it around into a compliment to either his team, his fans, or someone else; a very likeable post-game performance, even if it was just a performance.

Has anyone even mentioned that Rick Carlisle is an excellent coach? I dare say the plays he calls have something to do with the championship and not simply the level of talent on the court.

Regarding the best player argument, if I am building a team for a one-year run at the title, the first player I take is Kobe. Lebron is an absolute beast, but no one since MJ has shown what Kobe does each year, and that's putting a whole team on his back when he needs to and scoring 60 when he needs to. I don't care for him personally, but the man knows how to win, and will win at any expense.

I think the Heat got cheated by the refs. They only got 33 free throws on their own home court when the Mavs got 18. D-Wade alone should have gotten 18!!

Next year, the Heat will win it all. Clean sweep. 4-0!! Mark these words. King James will score 40 points average in the finals.!!

"...He will enter that Barkley and Malone pantheon as an all time great, but he is a top 10 player most years in nba (top 5 this year)..."

Except that DIRK has a ring. Barkley, Malone, and Lebron....good players, no rings.

Lebron arguably wasn't even the best player on his own team.

Dirk was second to only Durant in points scored per game this year.

So far, Lebron has lots of stats, but no rings. You can't call yourself the best player in the NBA if you collapse in the 4th quarter in the Finals.

Alan

Sprint Geezer wrote:

Here's my take on this, like anybody cares:

Lebron is primarily a player rather than a competitor.

PLAYING is more important to him than WINNING.

He goes out to play, not to win. If he can make some big plays during the course of the night, he is impressed with himself, and feels like he had fun, or did something worthwhile, or achieved his goal--of playing, and playing well.

...

To put it in running terms:

Lebron is a good time trialer, not a good racer.

Lebron is amazing but his refusal to improve his overall game is maddening. He's played the same way for his entire career and it is failing him when the game slows down and the defenses tighten up. He could be a mix of the best parts of MJ and Barkley, but instead he jacks threes and mopes around the perimeter.

Go to one of your personal gyms, Lebron, and perfect a turnaround jumper (you airballed your only attempt last night) and a drop step. Also, learn how to make a cut to the basket when you don't have the ball. No one will ever be able to stop you, ever. Until then, you will fade during pressure situations when you can't run the fast break and teams sag off you and dare you to shoot long jumpers.