Verzbicas in Armory 2 mile, going for record - Feb 12

wait a sec, how can he NOT be terribly fresh? he's raced, what, ONCE since the xc season? Not racing for a month and a half and considering he trains well enough and year round to always be in shape instead of taking vast times off after huge bouts of overracing, like most high schoolers, i'd say he's plenty fresh.

and to the guy who said he's piling too much on...he's going to race 3 times in the weeks, then take a little racing break til march, and race once more indoor meet at nationals. How is that piling too much on? Have you SEEN the racing schedules of most high school teams? Most of them race twice a week every week!

A) "....his Footlocker Champs best is a full thirty seconds behind Ritz's.

B) "And even Ritz couldn't managed to take down Lindgren's 5K outdoor record."

C) It took Rupp, who trained specifically for that record.

D) And if you compare mile times, Lindgren's mile best in HS was two seconds ahead of Lukas's. And when you're talking about a four minute mile, two second might as well be twenty."

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All very good points! But............

A) Lukas didn't need to run 30 seconds faster at Footlocker but easily could have, if he had been pushed in both of those races!

B) Lindgren ran his outdoor 5k record against a bunch of guys out of high school - (Russ & Prof.?)

C) Rupp had already graduated from HS and had the whole summer to train for that race - not really a fair comparison!

D) Tons of guys have run under 8:40 for two miles and not broken 4 minutes or 4:03 for the mile!

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Lindgren had that perfect combination of speed and endurance, which made him devastating in the field. He was able to beat himself into the ground.

1) True, that's why he was injured so damn much!

Verzbicas, as another poster pointed out, has been piling on races without a strategy or a goal. He can't be terribly fresh, and yet he's trying to run the race of his life, but of the lives of EVERY runner since Lindgren in '64.

2) How do we know that he doesnt have goals for this indoor season?

It's not impossible, but highly improbable. If he's gonna do it, he has to take a lesson from Lindgren's recent interview on the subject. He's gotta be willing to run is own race, to not play the old bullshit rules of sitting on the rabbit and kicking. He's gotta go out, run his race, run until he's got nothing left, and then run that last lap even harder.

3) Agreed!!!!

"In My opinion" ...as well! without a doubt the 2 greatest high school runners in American history. Ryun is still the "only" runner ever to break the 4 min. barrier in an all high school event and Lindgren was just an animal with amazing self discipline. Im surprised we dont here to much about who coached him. As far as "V" is concerned...not on the 12th, not in this year, not ever. Sorry kid...just sayin it like it is. Youre good..but notr that good. I give Prefontaine 3rd greatest than "V" gets the nod for 5th right behind German Fernandez in 4th. Gotta love the high schoolers man! they keep all of us young. Good luck on Saturday

Brianruns10 wrote:

Verzbicas, as another poster pointed out, has been piling on races without a strategy or a goal. He can't be terribly fresh, and yet he's trying to run the race of his life, but of the lives of EVERY runner since Lindgren in '64.

You people are insane. LV has been going into every race with a goal. There's even interviews about his strategies. Are you kidding me? It's not like he's just entering ANY race he can, he pulled out of Milrose remember? Clearly his races are well thought out and that is one of the reasons he is the top high school recruit in the nation(he does things the right way). He's not over-racing. Just because he's running fast doesn't mean he's racing any harder than the people around him. He hasn't been doing a ton of workouts because of the winter weather so he's very obviously fresh. He's hardly training specifically for these races because of the weather anyway.

Lindgren's 13:44 was run on June 5, 1964. I believe he had not yet graduated from high school. In that race, on a mediocre cinder track, he led over two miles of the race and despite not winning (Bob Schul won) HE BROKE WHAT WAS UP TO THAT POINT THE AMERICAN RECORD IN THE 5000.

Good Facebook thread on this on the XC Nation page with Lindgren himself and Craig Virgin chiming in.

Xc Nation

Lukas Verzbicas Indoor Two-Mile Record Attempt Prediction: What time will he run?

Xc Nation: The record is 8:40.00 set in 1964 by Gerry Lindgren

Jake Hansen: ‎8:39.9

Hank Tea: ‎8:36

Aron Taylor: ‎8:38.7

Brandon Dorion: He is going to give it his all. Thats my prediction :)

Dave Lee: Lukas is very good. Don't know if he can hang on for two sub 4:20's though. A lot will depend on how the race sets up, pacers and who else is in it. If all goes well, 8:37.77

Craig Virgin: I believe that he will be fortunate to go under 8:45 in an all H.S. race. Still, a 4:03+ mile in the early winter shows that he must have been doing significant speed work somewhere in an indoor track... Chicago has had one helluva winter so far. Usually, a fast PR mile ...usually precedes an even faster PR 2-mile... but it didn't work out that way for him last June. That's always a problem when one races so sparingly. I took a different approach.

Ignacio Villalba: I wouldn't be surprised if Lukas breaks the 2 mile Indoor and OUTDOOR record. I will be more than surprised if he breaks German Fernandez's 5000 M junior outdoor record. I give him an 8:37 for the 2 miles indoor.

Dave Lee: Did not realize it was an all-high school race, If that is case, I don't think it's likely. He will need some more experieced runners in the race with him to get it done.

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Dave Ross Dave Ross:

Looks like Lukas Verzbicas is taking a shot at your high school 2 mile record this weekend. What do you think ?

Gerry Lindgren : I think he should be able to beat it. He ran 4:04 in a mile last week and stayed behind the whole race.... This race seems to have a really fast field so I think everyone might be under my old record. If so Lukas Verzbicas will be one of um.

Dave Ross: obviously a very tough record, just because it's stood for so long. Didn't you run that on a 160 yard track ? That's mind boggling with all of those tight turns.

Gerry Lindgren: I am small and left-footed so the turns are not so tight.

Dave Ross: ha ha. left footed. I like it !

Gerry Lindgren: Well, A RIGHT FOOTED runner will have more trouble around those curves because the track curves up. Can't get all your power going around the corner. Left footed runner has a flat base to push off on; can power around the corner.

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Dave Ross: I think the record will still stand. I think he may run 8:43-8:45.

Dave Lee: Good thing Gerry didn't have two left feet. The record might be 8:20 is he did.

Craig Virgin: Banked board tracks of old...were hard for guys like me who didn't run on them often. Functionally, one should be able to run faster on a banked track...but the 160 yard tracks were much harder than the modern day 200 meter banked tracks. ... Even in college, I mainly ran on the flat tracks...Villanova guys did well because they practiced on a banked board track...that was erected outdoors! Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I have never heard of a left footed runner either ... but I guess some guys do well on indoor tracks (Eamonn Coghlan comes to mind) and others don't.

Dave Ross: Craig, I think that Gerry may have said "left footed runner" a bit tongue in cheek. I do think that guys with a smaller more compact physique can handle the tight turns much better than the tall, lanky guys. Cases in point: Lindgren, Coghlan and Marcus O Sullivan. Lagat is another guy that can run indoors well because of his smaller frame.

Craig Virgin: I so agree with everything Dave says above...and he lists perfectly legendary examples.

flippzip wrote:

Lindgren's two mile was run against Ron Clarke who burned passed him in the last lap but it was a tremendous effort for a HS dude, especially back then! That record totally needs to go Big Time! It is way over due and Lukas is the one to do it!

Lukas's life is 10x's way more stable than Gerry's ever was! Lindgren unfortunately had the gift of "self-sabotage" and over trained/raced himself right out of the picture. He was and is a really good guy but,,,, for many years, he just couldn't find a real balance in his life and it cost him his Olympic dream. Lukas has the mind and the muscle to put this together and make it work!

Good Luck!!!!

Thank you Dr. Phil!

quote from Virgin. "fortunate to go 845 in an all high school race"... maybe so but does he realize this is NOT an all high school race !?

Gerry is my Neighbor here in honolulu. If anyone wants to come to hawaii to meet gerry let me know or if your going to be in hawaii lets go for a run with him.

wedlock wrote:

anyone have info for this meet?

time schedule?

cost?

name of the meet?

thanks

There's some info about the meet here:

. Everything you asked for is there except how much it costs to get in.

I am sure he does. It is a separate point, not specifically relates to the upcoming race.

bob m wrote:

quote from Virgin. "fortunate to go 845 in an all high school race"... maybe so but does he realize this is NOT an all high school race !?

if he eats lots of peanuts he can definatly do it

he is only running 4 meets indoor... that is what I was referring too. he has goals of breaking four in the mile, and the two mile indoor record and he has picked meets to get to those goals. he dropped out of millrose games so he could accomplish those goals. he is barely running anything compared to many hs runners. how many meets has lindsay crevoiserat ran this year? or chad noelle? or every other new england runner. he knows what he is doing. he made the decision to run these national meets and not ihsa track. every meet he runs is a conscious decision and every record he goes for is too.

"Even in college, I mainly ran on the flat tracks...Villanova guys did well because they practiced on a banked board track...that was erected outdoors! Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I have never heard of a left footed runner either ... but I guess some guys do well on indoor tracks (Eamonn Coghlan comes to mind) and others don't."

Villanova did have an outdoor banked board track but I believe it was mostly useless for training in the Pennsylvania winter. When I took my first visit to Haverford, Coghlan was there doing a workout on Haverford's (flat and at that time dirt) indoor track.

You, sir, need to learn to respect the marathon.

"World class in the 60's isn't that relevant".

Ha .... you certainly do not know track and field

to say something so lame as that. You could take

athletes from the 60's and very early 70's and they

would all make the USA Team now ... in fact, except

maybe for some field events, they would dominate the

positions. You ever see the photo of Pre and Lindgren

duking it out in NCAA CC? Together they were waaaayyy

ahead of the rest of the pack and they would be further

ahead of the pack if they were to run today.

I hope Verzbicas is the Next One (Ryun, Pre, Lindgren, Schul

remember Schul .... Ha! Never heard of him? Wow .... The only

American to EVER win an Olympic 5k ... running the last 300

meters in 37 seconds on a MUDDY TRACK IN THE RAIN.

Also in the 60's .... Billy Mills, Billy Dellinger, Billy Bailie, Bruce

Kidd (to throw in a Canadian along the way).

You said ... "World class in the 60's isn't relevant"?

Repent!

PS - Written by a Canadian

Q. Cassidy

to jimji- did Gerry Lindgren ever run against Jim Ryun? if so, what was the outcome? I see photos of Pre, Shorter, Lindgren together but none of those two. I know in Lindgrens book he spoke how they were racing towards who would break the 4 min. barrier first but thats it.

Lindgren ran against Ryun at least once. And lapped him.

"12/27/63 - Examiner Indoor -Ralph Gamez is invited to run the 2M at the Cow Palace . . . takes third (9:29.7), behind Jim Ryun (East, a junior -9:22). The winner -Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, a senior). Lindgren runs 9:00.0, shattering the national indoor record by 21.9 seconds, and even 9.8 seconds under the outdoor standard. Lindgren laps ALL seven runners during his 22 lap race around the 160-yard oval."

bob m wrote:

quote from Virgin. "fortunate to go 845 in an all high school race"... maybe so but does he realize this is NOT an all high school race !?

It could also means he goes out in 4:15 in last place and dies like he did when he though he could go for Fernandez's HSR outdoors last year. He'd be better off running a college meet 2 mile that would be won in 8:35 but they havn't had those since 1986. Still he's pretty sharp right now to be able to run 4:03. He'll probably be very close to 8:40.

The leaders are going to be 4:08 at least for the mile split.