VIPAM wrote:
Did Mebrahtom, Ryan, Alberto, Billy Rodgers or any of them who accomplished as much as Ritzenhein take more than 5 marathons to break 2:10?
It took Meb five tries to break 2:10... and he barely did it on the 5th try (2:09:53).
VIPAM wrote:
Did Mebrahtom, Ryan, Alberto, Billy Rodgers or any of them who accomplished as much as Ritzenhein take more than 5 marathons to break 2:10?
It took Meb five tries to break 2:10... and he barely did it on the 5th try (2:09:53).
BowToYourSensei wrote:
Yeah, Ritz. Since you haven't yet reached your potential in the distance you love most, maybe you should give up on it and forget your dream. Makes a lot of sense. Uh huh.
The distance he loves the most is preventing from making it to the starting line. It's not like we're asking Ritz to change sports here. If he'd been in Ryan Hall territory(2:06-2:07 range) by now then switching events would be a tough pill to swallow - 2:10 gets you nowhere on the world level.
Nothing original to contribute, other than to say it really has to be the money. His times on the track speak for themselves. He can be competitive. I'd hazard a guess he doesn't like the marathon nearly as much as track distance events. He might publicly state a like for the marathon, but that would be the right thing to do when you are getting sponsor and event money (appearance fees) to be in the race. People pay attention to the marathon and ignore track (at least here in the States). The only way you get big money in track, in the U.S., is to win the Olympic Games. Or, set a world record or two. The mainstream press basically ignored Solinsky's stunning American Record this past summer.
Da Truth aka Da Stupid
I think the question was did any of those athletes take MORE than five attempts at the marathon to break sub 2:10. If Meb took only five then the answer is still- no; therefore, your post is irrelevant!
Ritz is too stupid to be successful.
Did stupid sh1t under Wetmore.
Did stupid sh1t under Hudson.
Doing stupid sh1t under Salazar.
Dude can't stop stepping on his own dick.
NoMoreMarathons wrote:
Da Truth aka Da Stupid
I think the question was did any of those athletes take MORE than five attempts at the marathon to break sub 2:10. If Meb took only five then the answer is still- no; therefore, your post is irrelevant!
Boston Billy took six attempts to break 2:10 (btw - only an idiot would say "break sub 2:10").
the OP would have a valid argument if Dathan's injury was another stress fracture, but this was a freak thing-it was running a long workout on a 200m indoor track. granted, higher mileage makes someone vulnerable to any injury, but it was not marathon volume that broke him down over a long period of time, it was a single poor workout choice.
I agree that in the short term, it might be in Dathan's interest to stick to the track. Just through next year. But money is in the marathon, the higher potential for reward is there, that is where he should chase.
Do you realize how fast a 2:09:53 marathon is? Unless you can run the time be respectful of the athlete, please
Da Answer wrote:
Boston Billy took six attempts to break 2:10 (btw - only an idiot would say "break sub 2:10").
He also took nearly 10 minutes off his PR on his sixth attempt.
So we should probably expect something in the 2:00 - 2:01 range for Ritz' next attempt.
Ritz sucks at marathon. He needs to run 5 and 10ks.
Quoting Ecclesiastes or something, since I don't know shitz about shitz, let alone shitz about Ritz, why should I swallow this shitzsandwich of a thread from some sumbitches I don't even know?
dsrunner has the day off wrote:
The marathon is already Rupp's best distance.
Put him in an 800, 1500, 3000, 5000, 10000 or 13.1 mile race -- where the pace is set exactly to world record level-- and Rupp will hang in there until just a bit over half way, about -54% the race distance, whatever the distance. Put him in a marathon, however, and he'll hold that 2:04 pace for something closer to 60% the race distance.
Yeesh. This is how US elites stack up right now?
Oh, right, Rupp isn't a true elite.
shoe guy wrote:
he also ran a legit 20 mile tempo at ~4:53 pace prior to NYC.
Come on. For the Nth time, a run of 20 miles or 1h40m is NOT a "tempo" run but any reasonable interpretation of the word.
Just say "20 mile marathon pace run - 4:53" if you don't know the definition of tempo pace.
snotter wrote:
Dude can't stop stepping on his own dick.
In Ritz's case that's an epic stretch.
quote]enoughalready wrote:
To further explain, I am not a Salazar hater.
I am simply stating, the times that Ritz has run at 10000 and 5000m is mainly because of his marathon training under Hudson. He received a lot of base from that, which was supplemented by Salazar's training when he first went to him.
That still doesn't mean he doesn't get injured...and he has not shown he can handle the marathon despite the training.
It's obvious considering his credentials on the track, if he did more 3k/5k, even 10k specific training, he could do much better at those events.[/quote]
At malmo and enoughalready:
I don't disagree that ritz might be better suited for the 5k and 10k, I just understand why enoughalready pulls out Hudson's marathon training example as part of his argument. He seems like it is either irrelevant or contradictory. The only point to it would be to say that Hudson was a better coach than Salazar.. and that might be true. But to say he was mainly good at the 5k and 10k because he successfully completed a lot of marathon training seems to go against the argument that he can not successfully complete marathon training.
enoughalready wrote:
That still doesn't mean he doesn't get injured...and he has not shown he can handle the marathon despite the training.
So you are saying he can handle the training but not the actual marathon. He has never gotten injured during a marathon so i don't understand that.
Recently ritz has been having some problems. Still i would not dismiss the idea that he would have had these same problems even if he was just running 100 mile weeks for 10k instead of 120. This last injury came from an indoor track. It did not come from a 15 miles tempo.
wow... i sure have a lot of typos. not going to correct them, but makes me more aware that i should double check my emails at work right now
wgrww wrote:
I think Ritz couldnt possibly give less of a f*ck about money at this point in his career. Did anyone here actually watch him run in the World 1/2 Marathon Championships from start to finish? His effort and mentality in that race is what American distance running fans are starved for. Anybody who watched that race would have to be a total idiot to not agree that his best potential is in the marathon, despite his lack of a breakout performance in the event so far. Even his AR 5K only got him 3rd in that race. Ritz is obviously not content just making olympic teams at 5 and 10k ; he wants to do things on a world stage. Say what you will about Ritz and his vulnerability to injury, but I respect him for persisting and taking that risk as opposed to playing it safe, when he knows and believes that his best potential lies in the marathon
Umm ever hear of Mark Curp? sub 61 half marathon in '85, yet never broke 2:11. The half marathon does not strongly correlate with marathon success as say a 5k would with 10K success.
For some reason "hitting the wall" hasn't been talked about in these forums, but it was a big thing in the 70's and 80's. It makes the marathon almost a completely different event. Every run up to about 20 miles/2 hours uses the same carbohydrate based energy system. So Ritz can run a great half marathon, even a great 20 miler and still tank a marathon if his training isn't geared towards handling the last 10K of the marathon (like the Japanese system or coach Renato's system).
Ritz is obviously either training wrong for the marathon (for him) or has some absurd stride/calf anomoly he needs to fix. Regardless, I think he should address that issue before fine-tuning his fitnesst to 2:05 shape.
Good that Ritz is focusing on the track in 2011 and he should do the same in 2012, especially if he goes sub-12:55 and its 10k equivalent and has a good showing in Daegu. He can chase the marathon and the $$$ after 2012. Dude needs to quit tinkering with his form and minimize the interval training.